Sharps cavalry carbine 45-70

[Gen Lew Wallace]

Gentlemen, forgive my ignorance on this matter.  I have always thought that the rifle listed in the title was a model used by the 19th century cavalry.  Am I missing something?  I only see 50-70 listed in the battle rifle list for the Sharps carbine. 

On a side note; is there going to be a postal match Sep-Nov this year?  I don't get to shoot my Sharps much, and this is something I would enjoy competing in.

[Drydock]

The US Cavalry only ever carried .50-70 Sharps, almost all being conversions of older percussion models.  When the military re-armed with .45-70s in the early 1870s, it was with the "Trapdoor".  However, for our purposes the .45-70 Sharps carbine is an acceptable weapon for a cavalry portrayal, being accepted as a reasonable substitute for a much harder to find .50-70.

This is for Federal Service.  There may have been state units that armed with the .45-70 Sharps pattern carbine, though I'm not personaly aware of any at this time.

[Gen Lew Wallace]

Thank you sir.  I had a sneaking suspicion that was the case.  I suppose I assumed that since the government adopted a round called the 45-70 Government that they used it in just about all the long guns they could hehe.  I also assumed that since they used the Springfield Trapdoor in that caliber that they would issue it to the troopers.  I didn't realize that they refitted so many percussion carbines.

I got to shoot original trapdoors when I volunteered at Fort Concho.  We used low power BP loads.  Man they were fun to shoot. 

[Pitspitr]

On a side note; is there going to be a postal match Sep-Nov this year?  I don't get to shoot my Sharps much, and this is something I would enjoy competing in.

It's always open in the spring and fall. It's just that since the musters have taken off there hasn't been a whole lot of interest in them. Consider yourself registered shoot the targets and mail them to me. Maybe we can renew the interest in them.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

The first post CW Texas Ranger long arm was a Sharps carbine, but it was in .50-70 as well. That is what LeBeef would have carried in True Grit.

http://www.curtrich.com/gillett.html

[Drydock]

The .50-70 Goverment round was created and adopted in 1866.  It was chambered in the model 1866-68-70 Trapdoor infantry rifles, with only a few hundred Trapdoor Carbines created in this caliber.  From 1866 to 1874 Cavalry troops were armed primarily with either the Spencer .56-50, or a Sharps Conversion in .50-70.  Literature from the time seems to indicate troopers preferred the Sharps.  The more powerful round with more reliable centerfire ignition, along with commonality of ammunition with the infantry all weighed positive versus the Spencers Magazine system.  

Both were phased out in the 1870s after the adoption of the M1873 rifle and carbine in the new .45 caliber.  But the .50-70 remained VERY popular with hunters for the rest of the BP cartridge era.

[Niederlander]

That's because the .50-70 is a GREAT round!  It's been my favorite big bore rifle round for years.

[Gen Lew Wallace]

Wonderful discussion full of information.  Thank you gentlemen! 

Also, thank you Col. Pitspitr.  I shall try to shoot the targets next week.  I am very pleased that the musters are becoming popular.  I shall endeavor to attend one someday.... work/life permitting of course.

[Trailrider]

Even after adoption of the M1873 Trapdoor Rifles and Carbines, a number of Sharps cartridge conversion carbines and M1868 Trapdoor Rifles, caliber .50-70 Gov't, were kept around at various Army posts.  The Sharps carbines were generally with cavalry units, whereas the Trapdoor .50-70's were generally found at posts where infantry units were stationed. Part of the reason was the lack of funding (sound familiar???) for .45-55 and .45-70 Gov't ammo in the FY1873 & '74 budgets, which limited the availability of the smaller diameter rounds to 3-5 rds per man per month.  At Sidney Barracks, NE, in 1876,  there were five Sharps Carbines, cal. .50, and over 50,000 rds of .50-70 Gov't ammo! These Sharps were utilized for target practice, foraging (hunting by troops), and also to apparently arm their civilian employees (teamsters, scouts, etc.) in the field with the troops. In addition, the Indian Police at the various Northern Plains agencies were armed with .50-70's.

[Tascosa Joe]

I recnetly read a book about the Archeology of the Red River Wars by Kruse.  I think I spelled that right.  One of the most interesting parts of the book were the Appendices at the back of the book.  One of which were the weapons issue lists to most of the units participating in the 1873/74 campaign.  The units were issued everything you can imagine Remington Cap and Ball, Open tops and M1873 SAAs and rifles were the same, Sharps Carbines, Remington Lee, Spencer, and 1873 Trapdoor Carbines.  4th Cav had the newest, 8, 9, and 10th Cav the older weapons.  The book was worth what I paid just for that info.

T-Joe

[Trailrider]

I recnetly read a book about the Archeology of the Red River Wars by Kruse.  I think I spelled that right.  One of the most interesting parts of the book were the Appendices at the back of the book.  One of which were the weapons issue lists to most of the units participating in the 1873/74 campaign.  The units were issued everything you can imagine Remington Cap and Ball, Open tops and M1873 SAAs and rifles were the same, Sharps Carbines, Remington Lee, Spencer, and 1873 Trapdoor Carbines.  4th Cav had the newest, 8, 9, and 10th Cav the older weapons.  The book was worth what I paid just for that info.

T-Joe

Many companies had been issued a variety of arms for evaluation during the "trials" period before the M1873 Trapdoor Springfield Carbine and Rifle was adapted by the Army.  Some of these units (usually companies) retained these various arms before their Springfield .45-70's were issued. Some companies didn't receive their .45 caliber Trapdoors until well into 1874!