Leather sewing machine

[outrider]

Ron...I sent you a PM

[daddyeaux]

I bought the Cobra CM 4 Dream Machine.......it will run you around $2500 but it is a great machine.

[Red Cent]

http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=17435

Very interesting regarding the Luberto Classic Club. The article is 2-3 years old. Do they have the new ones out?

Daddyeaux, that one is at the top so far. This is worse than trying to buy a cellphone.

[Cliff Fendley]

You can't go wrong with the Cobra 4. They are all basically the same machine and Steve's customer service is second to none. That is a huge plus if you've never owned one before because he is pretty much available 7 days a week on his cell should you get in a bind. I'm not sure when the man sleeps.

[Slamfire]

Cliff, you are about the cobra 4000, i was with steve this last weekend at the boot& saddle show at Wichata Falls ,Tx.  If i ever sell my old Champion( harness machine)  the 4000,in either 16.5 or 25 in. would be my personel choice. Steves after the"sale service" is top rail.





    Hootnix.

[Slowhand Bob]

Red Cent, it has been some time back that I first seen the Luberto machine, advertised in the Journal, and looked for further info.  At  the time I thought it might make an excellent substitute for the BOSS, be handy as a second machine while qualifying as portable which is good for on sight promotion.  Seems development is going slow on their web site as it looks the same as 'back when'.  When I first saw this post I was hoping for some new information and perhaps a video demo or two would be out by now.  I think that in affect we are trying to reproduce  the awl feature when we run a stitch row without thread and then rerun the same row with the thread.  One problem is that when we reach the 3/4" leather thickness limit listed for many of the larger machines we are also on the foot lift limit and are already into feeding issues.  I notice that the Luberto has a 3/4" material thickness limit but looks like it has a considerably higher lift, am I reading the specs right on this?

[Red Cent]

http://www.leatherstitchers.com/classic.htm

[saddler]

The Tippmann machines seem nice but are rarely seen in the UK
Strange that they - along with other machines I have seen - seem to use a very very similar shuttle system to the Singer 45 series

Most of my leather sewing - back when I used machines for such a task - was done with the Singer 45K for heavy duty and a Singer 29K for the lighter work
Never had a problem with the 29K, every one I had ran like a dream
The 45K - I had ONE that liked me BUT sadly it turned out to be the ONLY VERSION of the 45K that was dedicated to the cobbler/shoemaker!! the foot had teeth on it that would mark the upper surface of the leather so I had to sell it
Never had a 45K before or since that worked as well for me as that 45K...

ALL my 45K models have been the cylinder bed type with a foot treadle - prefer it for more control

The only other machine I still own is the monster of leather sewing machines - a British United Shoe Machinery Co. No.6 - also called the Pearson #6 - used to sew the traces on horse tack.
It will sew through about an inch of very thick leather like it's not even there & is a needle feed.
Never use it anymore as all the work I do now is by hand. I keep hearing different rumours as to what they sell for, but not decided to off load it yet... May do one day - until then I just love looking at it!!

Saddler

[Red Cent]

I wonder if the Luberto has the same problem as the Tippman. Changing thickness and maintaining a tight stitch with or without adjustment.

[ROSSGUN]

Red Cent,

Just so you are aware of it  the Artisan 4000, the Ferdco Pro-2000 and the Cobra Class 4, and the Cowboy are basically all the same machine  they are all copies of the Juki 441.  The reason you hear more comments about the Cobra is that it is quite a bit cheaper than the Ferdco...but a good machine and you can't beat the service that you get from Steve.   Now the Cadillac of course is the Durkoff-Adler.

Ill probably get hate mail for the next year here but................ they are all "junk" in my 40 years experience. Why everyone persists in selling and using NEEDLE FEED machines like the ones mentioned above, I have no idea! I brought in a Ferdco Bull once ( after watching John Bianchi`s video years back - I mean he had to be right .. right?.....wrong!). This machine I felt would possibly be the replacement for the Needle Awl machines I had ( including a lower cost) Was I wrong! These and I mean ALL of these are just suped up adjusted domestic /"industrial needle feed machines! Great for canvass as the Needle Awl machine`s awl tend to get involved with the weave.......but thats it! There is just no stitching capability and pattern comparison. And for the book, the Union Lockstitch will do 800 stitches per minute .............Amen

[Cliff Fendley]

Ill probably get hate mail for the next year here but................ they are all "junk" in my 40 years experience. Why everyone persists in selling and using NEEDLE FEED machines like the ones mentioned above, I have no idea! I brought in a Ferdco Bull once ( after watching John Bianchi`s video years back - I mean he had to be right .. right?.....wrong!). This machine I felt would possibly be the replacement for the Needle Awl machines I had ( including a lower cost) Was I wrong! These and I mean ALL of these are just suped up adjusted domestic /"industrial needle feed machines! Great for canvass as the Needle Awl machine`s awl tend to get involved with the weave.......but thats it! There is just no stitching capability and pattern comparison. And for the book, the Union Lockstitch will do 800 stitches per minute .............Amen

Welcome and great first post.  

No one denies the needle and awl stitchers are the cats meow but to say the others are "junk" is Bull Hockey. Sure the Union will run like an express train but I don't know of anyone on this board that is looking for speed like that making cowboy action gear. I have the servo speed on my Cobra about as slow as it will go just so it doesn't get away from me. That thing will sew faster than I will ever be able to use on my gear.

When I ever get around to restoring my Landis 3 it will be great but wont make the Cobra "junk"

[outrider]

One comment

I AGREE WITH CLIFF on this one....

[Red Cent]

Well, a little strong but I guess we get your point.

Now, please take your time and explain to some of us what you just said.

[outrider]

are you asking me or Rossgun to explain and comment?

[Massive]

- Needle awl is supposed to be good, problem is they don't make them any more.  I know where there are a few, but the price is high, and who knows how well they work.  I think if one really wants to make a case on function, it would be better to just say "hand sewing".

- Bianchi holsters still come out as Bianchi holsters.  The stitching is neat, and they last for decades.  If you want more authentic one could say again, hand stitch.  But I don't know the truth of that since the western age overlapped the industrial age pretty much completely.  Maybe it was a needle awl time.  To get really authentic, you have to start buying your leather from places that stiill tan it the old way.  Basically England?

- On speed.  Yeah, my machine runs too fast.  But I don't know if we shouldn't be able to handle more speed.  800 stitches a minute is way too fast.  And reputationally, the machines need constant fussing to keep running.  They sure could build them.  I have a machine from way back then that runs 4000 stitches a minute in cloth, and pretty much will do it for ever.

[Red Cent]

Hey, Outrider. Please go ahead.

[outrider]

Red Cent,

I am not the one who made the comment about the needle feed machines being junk

[Cliff Fendley]

Massive, yes you are correct it was still needle and awl time. The industrial age had come and stitchers were used by most of the large saddlers as soon as they were available to them. I think around 1882 is when the Campbell machines were first made and may still be the best machine available today. A local saddler here has one that runs every day.

If you want period gun leather it needs to be stitched with linen thread which needle and awl machines were designed for. I have been told not to try it with the needle feed machines.

So to be authentic you need a needle and awl machine (if making products that represent 1880's and later) or hand stitch.

Personally any holster with a toe plug I would just as soon stitch the entire thing by hand anyway so it's all one thread and continuous stitch. The money belts that need to be authentic are when I really long for a needle and awl machine.

A new Campbell stitcher today is probably in the neighborhood of 6000 dollars, would have to sew a lot of period correct money belts to be worth while.

[Red Cent]

Who is on first.

Hey Outrider. Realize you didn't make the comments about the "junk" machines. Now with all due respect to that poster and not trying to start a fight, am I to forget about the comments.?

Actually, toyimg with the thought of starting with a Luberto and adding a Cobra 4 later if all works out . The extra thousand or so to purchase the myriad of handtools needed sounds practical.

[outrider]

I am not familiar with the Luberto...but you can't go wrong with your choice of the Cobra Class 4