South Texas Horse Slaughter

[Shotgun Franklin]

I was reading Dobie's book on Mustangs. He says that at one time huge herds of Mustangs ranged South Texas. Supposedly as ranches moved into the area there was a huge kill off of horses. Dobie claims that thousands of horses were shot and left to rot to make more grass for cows. Anyone have any other info about this? What years did this happen?

[Tascosa Joe]

I dont have any real info, but the area that the King Ranch covers and west, used to be know as the Wild Horse Prairie.  An older gentleman named Bobby Cavazos who lives out at Fredericksburg may have some information.  He may have a web site as he wrote several books about the Wild Horse Prairie and the King Ranch.

[Bugscuffle]

I don't know about any horse slaughters in South Texas, but there was one at Palo Duro Canyon in the texas panhandle, but I do  not recall the details. If my memory serves me, it was after a battle between th U.S. Cavalry and Comanches. The Comanches had used Palo Duro as a hiding place for many years and they probably would have been safe there except for the interdiction of another Indian tribe, hostile to the Comanches, and again I am unsure of which tribe that may have been. Palo Duro is virtually invisilble until you are stnding on th rim of it. But, back to the point. The U.S Cavalry drove off or killed the Comances that were in the canyon tending to the horses and then the cavalry kiled the 35,000 horses that were storehoused there. I believe that this story is recounted in S.C. Gwynne's book "Empire of the Summer Moon".

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[Pancho Peacemaker]

This is a good article on the rise and fall of the Spanish Mustang in Texas. It does mention some of he horse killings:

http://houstonhistorymagazine.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Mustangs-Heacock-Valdes.pdf

[Shotgun Franklin]

Thank ya'll and if anyone has additional info I'd appreciate it.

[Guns Garrett]

On a related note - has anyone heard stories of the "culling" of wild burros around Las Vegas, 50-60 yeers ago?  My father told me stories of an annual event of a "Burro Bar-B-Que" in Vegas.  Urban Legend, or a kernal of truth?  Supposedly, a sign was displayed, advertizing the event, and promising it was "The Best Ass You Can Get!"  or some such.

..or maybe they were advertizing sumpin else... 

...or maybe Da was pulling my leg...

[Delmonico]

Before PETA and other never do wells got involved horse and burro culling was common around the west.  Simple, a no-native species competeing for grass and water used by native animals and domesticated livestock.  Culling was a common method of removing them from the range.  Today we spend thousnads of dollars of tax payer money to save them, capture them and put them out to be adopted.  And when I say thousands of dollars I mean for each one, many which are so inbred that nobody wants them.  A lot of folks I know who are familar with the program call these Welfare horses.  They sit around and the goverment takes care of them.

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Kinda reminds me of the scenes from 'The Misfits' ...

[Yeso Bill]

I'll throw this in.  Say you had a few nice mares back in the open range days and they got picked up by a wild herd.  This happened to my great Grandfather and he was lucky enough to recover one a year later, 35 miles away. 

And the wild horse program is a disaster and it doesn't look like anything can be done about it. 

According to Walace & Hoebel, (The Commanches, Lords of the South Plains), Col. McKenzie captured 3,000 Comanche horses in Blanco Canyon in 1872 (?) but the next night the Indians were able to steal most of them back.  In 1874, the next major campaign against the Comanche, McKenzie captured 1424 at Palo Duro and remembering his lesson, killed 1048.
    When the Comanche came in and surrendered at the agency, 6,000 more were confiscated and mostly sold,a few shot or given away.     

[w.b. masterson]

Yeso Bill,
Probably a typo, but the books you cite are by Ernest WALLACE, my cousin who taught at Texas Tech University for years.

[GunClick Rick]

They are sluaghtering them alot in Mojave area,aperantley they want to put a pipe line with refineries out there and that's why T-Bone Pickin wife is trying to save them,she wants to build a jurasic sort of park to come see the wild horses,but her old man is a natural gas guy,so who knows.

http://wildhorseinvestigationteam.wordpress.com/blm-secret-plan-to-destroy-wild-horses/

http://protectmustangs.org/?p=777

[Delmonico]

When you have to many wild horses and the range can't handle them it's simple, get the list of PETA members and UPS one to their house.  To be honest with you if I lived on an overstocked range and someone wanted to hire me to reduce the population and offered me good wages, I'd grab the Savage 99 and a few hundred rounds of my favorite load and would get to work. 

Anyone thinks I'm a heartless SOB, before you post nasty about me or send me a nasty-gram, look up the term feral and make sure you understand it.

[Yeso Bill]

W. B. Masterson,
      Yes, of course you are correct.  Thank you for the correction.

Delmonico, I've raised horses since 1969.  A few years ago we gathered a pasture and fought those cows to the west side of it...about 5 miles.  There is a dirt tank on the west side of that pasture with high dams and unknown to us, that is where about 12 mares and the stud were.  We got pretty close, they saw us and here they came, over the top of the dam and went through the herd at about 30 miles an hour and kept going.  Of course they scattered the herd to #@*% and there was no turning them and getting them back together.  I'm pretty sure deals like that is why there are no wild horses left. If I'd of had my rifle I'd of probably thinned my domestic herd.  We went back the next day and got the cows out. 

The horse, IMO, is probably the most destructive animal there is to range.  He has a foot that packs soil.  It is nothing to see someone buy a new place with a few acres of natural grass, turn a horse or two in on it and a year later it is a sand box.   

It is my understanding that pretty near everywhere in the west got loaded down with horses.  I am in east central NM and there are none left here.  Thank goodness.  West of me is Cowboy Mesa, aka in the old days, Wild Horse Mesa.  Burro Draw is across the hi-way.  A World Champion steer jerker that was raised here told me he learned to rope, jerk and tie down out on the range, roping the native burro that lived here. 

Another neighbor told me there was once a wild herd of horses up  at Yeso and they would hem them up in a bend of the RR track  where the roadbed was steep enough to be used for a corral fence, drag out several, saddle them up and ride them. 

So, what happened to them?  I imagine ranchers killed most.  The Gov't was responsible for eradicating the prairie dog here in (I think) the 30s and I have wondered if they didn't have a hand in eradicating the horses....but don't know that. 

Gunclick Rick, I would imagine that if Mrs. Pickins can get the Feds to approve her horse ranch, there will be some Federal $$$s to go along with it.  But I don't know that for sure either. 

[Major 2]

I don't know about any horse slaughters in South Texas, but there was one at Palo Duro Canyon in the texas panhandle, but I do  not recall the details. If my memory serves me, it was after a battle between th U.S. Cavalry and Comanches. The Comanches had used Palo Duro as a hiding place for many years and they probably would have been safe there except for the interdiction of another Indian tribe, hostile to the Comanches, and again I am unsure of which tribe that may have been. Palo Duro is virtually invisilble until you are stnding on th rim of it. But, back to the point. The U.S Cavalry drove off or killed the Comances that were in the canyon tending to the horses and then the cavalry kiled the 35,000 horses that were storehoused there. I believe that this story is recounted in S.C. Gwynne's book "Empire of the Summer Moon".

You alluding to the Col. Ronald Mackenzie battle over Chief Iron Jacket.....  no where near 35,000 horse were killed !

some 1400 were captured.... what were not usable were destroyed.

[Delmonico]

Bill, one of the old time gun writers, not sure who at this point mentioned the Forest Service used to buy cowboys ammo to use to protect USFS land.  The different parts of the Government charged with protecting the land did a lot till the Animal Rights folks pushed the Wild Horse and Burro Law through in 1971. 

As I said, a lot of these horses and burros sit today collecting welfare on our dime because no one wants them.  I've been told by some folks I know that have gotten mustangs that few of these are anything but mixed breed scrub horses no one in their right mind would want. 

As we type, the problem gets worse as the price of hay due to drought and other factors cause folks to turn more horses loose they can't afford any more. 

[Mogorilla]

In laws got 3 mustangs from the west about 12 years ago.  1 was older and totally unrideable, the other 2 were young and adapted.   The older one was a mare as was one of the younger ones.  Both were amazing mothers.  They sold them to a guy breeding some mustangs.  The older mare according to him was the best mare he had.   she was gentle and loved her nose rubbed and carrots and apples I would bring her.  But try and put a saddle on her and look out.   

[Delmonico]

Some of the folks who do the Pony Express re-ride like those mustangs, I've got some pictures somewhere, I'll look later for some.

[Delmonico]

BTW I'd like to see the mustangs sorted from the scrub horses and only the scrubs removed from the gene pool.   

[Delmonico]

You alluding to the Col. Ronald Mackenzie battle over Chief Iron Jacket.....  no where near 35,000 horse were killed !

some 1400 were captured.... what were not usable were destroyed.

Besides, the last I knew, unless they moved it Palo Duro is not in south Texas.

[Tascosa Joe]

I found this link which leads to an article in the Corpus Christi Caller.

http://www.caller.com/news/2011/nov/23/chasing-mustangs-in-the-wild-horse-desert/