Looking for good sources of 45-70 Gov. bullets and brass sources

[joec]

I'm considering getting a 45-70 and looking for prices on both the brass (Winchester or Starline) as well as lead bullets. I want to shoot it with both black powder and smokeless so if wads or needed with the BP please a source for that also. Oh and this is a possible just looking to reload as cheap as possible for both target and perhaps hunting. I can't cast my own bullets for at least another year so that is out of the question but want lead bullets.

[rickk]

Best place to buy Starline Brass is right from Starline, but you need to buy 250,  500 or 1000 of them, and you usually have to pre-order them and wait a month or two or three. Right now they are showing on their web site that they are doing a run next month (shipping August 31). Pre-order it now and you know they will make enough for you.

If you want less, Graff and Sons, Cabella's, Buffalo Arms.

I hate to say it, but some times it boils down not to how cheap you can get it, but can you get it at all.

45-70 cast bullets are going to be more on the pricey side. They use a lot of lead, and they typically aren't cast in a 4 or 6 cavity mold. Cant help you there at all. I haven't bought a cast bullet since the 1980's. I have a source of free lead, so I just cast them myself.  A cheap (i.e. "LEE" - they have 6 variations) but serviceable mold will cost you less than what a couple hundred bullets will cost.

You will have to figure out what bullet you need for whatever you are going to do with it. For me, it is a Marlin Lever gun that I use for hunting. I want a bit of flat trajectory out to 200 yards, and I'm not shooting 100 yards, so I chose a LEE single cavity hollow point mold. The velocity is up there for a 45-70... "flat shooting" (for a 45-70). I can make 50-60 an hour, which means I can meet my needs for almost forever in 3-4 hours.

Also, if you are going to shoot it with both BP and Smokeless, you may be talking two different bullet lubes and possible two different bullet styles.

Wads, you can make them yourself so easily. Yup, you can buy them too, but if you do get to the point where you are casting yourself, and playing with lube yourself, making wads that will work for you is pretty easy.

So, sorry I cant help you out with the wads or the bullets... I wouldn't know where to begin. You are looking at a sort of "specialty cartridge", and aren't going to find 50 different variations of bullets on anyone's shelves like if you were talking .30 caliber. When you venture near the edge, you have to be somewhat self sufficient.

I am sure someone will post a source of bullets for you though. Just expect a limited selection.

Rick

[joec]

Best place to buy Starline Brass is right from Starline, but you need to buy 250,  500 or 1000 of them, and you usually have to pre-order them and wait a month or two or three. Right now they are showing on their web site that they are doing a run next month (shipping August 31). Pre-order it now and you know they will make enough for you.

If you want less, Graff and Sons, Cabella's, Buffalo Arms.

I hate to say it, but some times it boils down not to how cheap you can get it, but can you get it at all.

45-70 cast bullets are going to be more on the pricey side. They use a lot of lead, and they typically aren't cast in a 4 or 6 cavity mold. Cant help you there at all. I haven't bought a cast bullet since the 1980's. I have a source of free lead, so I just cast them myself.  A cheap (i.e. "LEE" - they have 6 variations) but serviceable mold will cost you less than what a couple hundred bullets will cost.

You will have to figure out what bullet you need for whatever you are going to do with it. For me, it is a Marlin Lever gun that I use for hunting. I want a bit of flat trajectory out to 200 yards, and I'm not shooting 100 yards, so I chose a LEE single cavity hollow point mold. The velocity is up there for a 45-70... "flat shooting" (for a 45-70). I can make 50-60 an hour, which means I can meet my needs for almost forever in 3-4 hours.

Also, if you are going to shoot it with both BP and Smokeless, you may be talking two different bullet lubes and possible two different bullet styles.

Wads, you can make them yourself so easily. Yup, you can buy them too, but if you do get to the point where you are casting yourself, and playing with lube yourself, making wads that will work for you is pretty easy.

So, sorry I cant help you out with the wads or the bullets... I wouldn't know where to begin. You are looking at a sort of "specialty cartridge", and aren't going to find 50 different variations of bullets on anyone's shelves like if you were talking .30 caliber. When you venture near the edge, you have to be somewhat self sufficient.

I am sure someone will post a source of bullets for you though. Just expect a limited selection.

Rick

Thanks Rick and I'm looking for something about 150 to 200 yards max that would stop a deer, since on a great day I can't see much further. I'm looking at the Rossi ranch hand since I like lever guns and this gun will be for hunting and target only. I'm basically looking for cheapest methods and supplies to reload. If I get this rifle I will also put a scope on it for the stated purposes as it isn't intended for anything but that. I don't think my 45 Colt Rossi M92 will do the job though it might as I really don't know. If it would I would use it but I'm looking for a round originally intended for BP first that will shoot smokeless also.

[rickk]

Well, if you are thinking about using it for deer hunting, a lighter hollow point is the way to go.  A 500 grain solid has a trajectory like a rock.

If you are target shooting and have all the time in the world to compensate for drop at precisely measured distances, the 500 grain bullet makes sense. On the other hand, if you are in the real world you aren't necessarily going to know the exact distance. A flat shooting bullet will help make up for that.

I don't think the hollow point at 45-70 velocities is going to expand all that much, so that isn't the real advantage. The real advantage, and the reason why hollow points were originally invented way back when, is that they are longer for a given weight and a bit more stable.

Fortunately for you, if/when you do decide to start casting your own, all the big mold makers offer 45-70 hollow points, and quite a few solid mold designs as well. There is plenty to choose from.  They tend to have several lube grooves to hold lots of lube too.

One thing to keep in mine is the shape of the nose. You want blunt or hollow point noses if you get a tubular magazine lever gun (as my Marlin is). Of course, if it is a single shot or a box magazine, anything goes as long as it fits.

[joec]

Well, if you are thinking about using it for deer hunting, a lighter hollow point is the way to go.  A 500 grain solid has a trajectory like a rock.

If you are target shooting and have all the time in the world to compensate for drop at precisely measured distances, the 500 grain bullet makes sense. On the other hand, if you are in the real world you aren't necessarily going to know the exact distance. A flat shooting bullet will help make up for that.

I don't think the hollow point at 45-70 velocities is going to expand all that much, so that isn't the real advantage. The real advantage, and the reason why hollow points were originally invented way back when, is that they are longer for a given weight and a bit more stable.

Fortunately for you, if/when you do decide to start casting your own, all the big mold makers offer 45-70 hollow points, and quite a few solid mold designs as well. There is plenty to choose from.  They tend to have several lube grooves to hold lots of lube too.

One thing to keep in mine is the shape of the nose. You want blunt or hollow point noses if you get a tubular magazine lever gun (as my Marlin is). Of course, if it is a single shot or a box magazine, anything goes as long as it fits.

I have a 45 LC in a Rossi octagon 20" barreled gun and for some reason I have the feeling it might not be effective for deer in the 100 to 200 yard range. Hence looking for something bigger just not sure I want to spend the money though if the 45 Colt will do the job. As I said I have little experience hunting but simply looking into starting as retirement is here and I'm putting it off for one year more till my wife catches up.

[rickk]

What the 45 colt can do on a deer is a discussion that I will stay out of.

It could become vicious ;-)

However, the shorter 45 colt bullets are going to have a poorer ballistic coefficient and slow down more quickly than the longer .45-70 will.

200 yards is a long ways.

The .45-70 muzzle energy is +- pretty close to a 12 gauge shotgun slug, but a lot more aerodynamic.

Someone, someplace will pull up something about an elephant being killed with a 22, probably at 800 yards,  but in most cases something bigger is better.

And, do you want to spend many hours late in the night following a blood trail of something you hit that ran off, or do you want to go home and call it "Miller Time"?

[rickk]

lots of good .45-70 stuff here btw:

http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/45-70-govt/


Here is a good one:
http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/45-70-govt/93853-store-bought-cast-bullet-most-accurate-your-45-70-a.html

But again, you may have to deal with the lube issue if you are shooting BP. You can certainly melt lube off and relube them with little more than a kitchen stove or a BBQ grill... messy, time consuming, but not hard.

[joec]

lots of good .45-70 stuff here btw:

http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/45-70-govt/


Here is a good one:
http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/45-70-govt/93853-store-bought-cast-bullet-most-accurate-your-45-70-a.html

But again, you may have to deal with the lube issue if you are shooting BP. You can certainly melt lube off and relube them with little more than a kitchen stove or a BBQ grill... messy, time consuming, but not hard.

Thanks Rick for the 2 previous posts I had a feeling that the 45 Colt wouldn't work out to 200 yards though probably good to 100 max using something in a more modern load. I also appreciate the sites you posted and will look those over also as I saved them for future reading. I have re lubed a lot of bullets that came lubed for smokeless so I'm very aware of that part. I will probably put the 45-70 on layaway tomorrow since I'm headed to Bud's to check out some 9mm loads with 4 kinds of powders. Looking for the best for my guns and the bullets I use most.

[rickk]

This is what makes it all sorts of fun ;-)



I just got a S&W Governor... a handloader's paradise of a machine with few that have gone before me.

Racking my brains out, scrounging info (safe info of course).

All sorts of fun !

[pony express]

Big retailers like Midway will have plenty of cast bullets for 45-70 available, but not at the best prices. Maybe there are some local casters of regular cowboy bullets that can also make 45-70? Also, for BP use, check in the Darksiders Den, maybe you can get some Big Lube  bullets already cast from Springfield Slim.

[Ranch 13]

I'm considering getting a 45-70 and looking for prices on both the brass (Winchester or Starline) as well as lead bullets. I want to shoot it with both black powder and smokeless so if wads or needed with the BP please a source for that also. Oh and this is a possible just looking to reload as cheap as possible for both target and perhaps hunting. I can't cast my own bullets for at least another year so that is out of the question but want lead bullets.

Find your best source for Remington brass, the rims are more uniform than Winchester. Starline is a bit on the hard side and needs to be annealed regularly for best service.
For wads with blackpowder go with Walters wads. 030 thickness.
For bullets get ahold of Big Sky Components in Miles City Mt. 406-eight 5 three-0196. John does an excellent job of casting and has a pretty good line of bullets suitable for black and smokeless, and his prices are good.

[Curley Cole]

me and Old Top get our bullets from Bill at AVR (Apple Valley Reloaders
we are using 495gr rnfp in .458  they are working fine in Tops original Trapdoor and my Buffalo Classic.

the last price list shows prices of: $13/50 and $47/250

You can reach him at:

email:  billnchris@hotmail.com

web:  http://lead-bullet.angelfire.com

good luck
curley

[sail32]

Track of the Wolf, http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Index.aspx, has .45-70 brass dies, etc., under the ammunition and the reloading sections on their home page.

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Hi..

Has anyone taken into account the shipping costs of lead bullets?

I mean, would it not be much much cheaper to buy lead bullets from a shop nearby?

Or am I making a mountain out of a molehill with this issue?

TTFN,

[wildman1]

Some of the places have free shippin with a minimum order. WM

[Ranch 13]

Hi..

Has anyone taken into account the shipping costs of lead bullets?

I mean, would it not be much much cheaper to buy lead bullets from a shop nearby?

Or am I making a mountain out of a molehill with this issue?

TTFN,

Yes if you can get good usable bullets local then that is best for everyone concerned.
However if you can't get good bullets locally, shipping from most reputable casters isn't that bad as they do use USPS flat rate boxes. 13$ will bring you 70 lbs of bullets, but won't buy much gas for the car to go driving around someplace to get bullets.

[joec]

Hi..

Has anyone taken into account the shipping costs of lead bullets?

I mean, would it not be much much cheaper to buy lead bullets from a shop nearby?

Or am I making a mountain out of a molehill with this issue?

TTFN,

Depending one where you buy it isn't too bad in some cases. For example I just bought 500 rounds each of 9mm 125 gr, 45 ACP 230 gr., 45 Colt 200gr., 45 colt 250 gr. Shipping was a flat $15 up to 65 lbs my order was 61 lbs. That is acceptable but if I had only bought one of the 500 round sizes it still would of been $15.

Well I went by and got the gun today as it was in stock. Action felt smooth and was a little surprised how much lighter it felt than my Rossi 92 with 20" Oct. barrel though this one is the Rio Grande 20" round barrel. Now I have to find optics for it as this is meant for hunting not really CAS stuff. I already have the Lee 3 die rifle die set for this round so that is covered. I have found a couple of hunting type bullets to reload ( boxes of 50 one by Remington and the other by Barnes) at Midway but will check locally as always as I've often gotten powder, primers cheaper than on line. Bullets other than the high dollar stuff not so much and brass Midway is out at the moment of Remington, Winchester and Starline. I am looking for the Remington however as some one on another group said the same thing about it being so heavy as was said here.

[Pappy Myles]

When I load smokless powder for my 45-70 (Wesson and Harrington buffalo classic)  I use about 30 gr 4198 and a 405 grain lazer cast bullet.   Works good in my rifle
http://www.laser-cast.com/45Cal.html
I believe you can get them at cabela's  or sportsman wearhouse

[Curley Cole]

I forgot to mention when I was discussing the AVR for ordering 45/70 bullets, they only charge $5 for shipping for all orders.

curley

[joec]

When I load smokless powder for my 45-70 (Wesson and Harrington buffalo classic)  I use about 30 gr 4198 and a 405 grain lazer cast bullet.   Works good in my rifle
http://www.laser-cast.com/45Cal.html
I believe you can get them at cabela's  or sportsman wearhouse

I have definably added these to my list of possibles as I don't have a cabela's but do have a sportsman warehouse close. I would like to try both the 300 gr and 405. I've been looking for a powder that will work regardless of the bullet type and IMR 3031 one seems to be on every possible bullet in all 3 books I have as well as most of the downloadable data from the powder makers. I haven't really decided yet on bullet for game and load as that will come with time and experience. As I've said, I'm sure not the great white hunter as I gotten 3 deer in my life two with a rifle and one with my car. The only thing I hunted as a kid was pigs (S. Florida) and smaller varmints.