Where are the shooters????

Cohagen · July 23, 2012, 09:11:39 PM

OK pards here's what I'm wonderin about. The economy aside, attendance this year at the matches I have attended is way,way down. BP shooters are even harder to find.....Is age catching up with us? No young shooters are coming up. Are people just loosing interest? Three gun shooters at the Homan Wisconsin club are having a hard time finding a place to park, and plenty of young gung ho guys too.

Are the upcoming generations just wanting to shoot black guns and could care less about cowboys? The cost of getting into both sports is about the same.

Love our sport but, am I watching it die?? Makes me sad to contimplate our future.

Your thoughts greatly appreciated.

Your humble servant,

Cohagen

Slowhand Bob · July 23, 2012, 09:52:14 PM

I think young shooters would be interested if we could make the game young. Make our very talented young shooters the face of SASS. Sad to say but we will no longer find very many youngsters in the traditional shooting venues, we waited to long to introduce them to hunting and traditional target shooting BUT there is still hope for attracting them. From an early age and even up into the young adult ranks you will find a desire to pit speed skills and achieve winning scores in many of the games they play. We just have to turn them on to the idea that there can be fun and recognition in competing against our current upcoming crop of stars. Along with this we need to aim the match themes and scenarios more towards the younger imagination. Think more zombie matches and also look at the other speed skill video game formats that young people enjoy to obtain possible ideas. Heaven forbid BUT just perhaps we could sit down with a young person or two and ask them what might make playing cowboy more interesting. Ill bet the answer will be more COWBOYS AND ALIENS or DAWN TO DUSK than APPALOOSA or JOSIE WELLS!

Pappy Myles · July 23, 2012, 10:26:11 PM

You know, I tried to get my 3 young ins out to come out and shoot. Neither one was interested because in their minds it was way to hokie because of the costuming. Almost as antique as the old west is now. It wasn't until I "bribed" my middle son to come out. When he did, he had a ball once he got past not costuming too much. I know my lore for the game stems from the old west shows of the 50's and early 60's. I still get a charge out of any of the new westerns, such as the remake of true grit. And even enjoyed cowboys and aliens, once I satisfied myself John ford wasn't really spinning in his grave.

We had a conversation after the first shoot, he enjoyed it, but really felt intimidated when he came in last. I told him son, I've had several matches where I've been tail end Charlie. it serves as a motivator to keep my eye on the front sight. We shoot 45s and 44-40 and 12guage. Have a ball with the big bang clang and recoil. He mentioned to me he would like to see a lot more of the reactive targets and not just steel plates. As it is now, it's very close to ipsc or idpa that we have both shot.

But your right, how to we appeal to a generation that grew up with sci fi fantasy and not Matt Dillion, palidan, bonanza, etc.

Fingers McGee · July 23, 2012, 10:46:11 PM

We've picked p a couple new shooters (young guns & a bucakarette) in the last two years, and I've been asked by three shooters just in the last two weeks about starting to shoot BP. Admittedly, we've got more Silver Seniors than any other category; but the ladies and under 30s are well represented.

wildman1 · July 24, 2012, 03:54:24 AM

I know several shooters that started CAS after retirement, myself included. WM

Roosterman · July 24, 2012, 07:56:45 AM

It's too damned hot this summer.

St. George · July 24, 2012, 08:34:23 AM

If they're interested at all, the younger shooters' interests lie more with true 'action shooting' - just like they see in their video games and in today's movies.

To see the costumed 350-pound Grandpas and Bubbas, the static stagecoaches, the sameness of the targets and all, doesn't give them something to emulate, or even try.

Plus - shooting 'anything' costs money, whether it's NSSA, CAS, Trapshooting, Zoot Suit, Zombie Shoots, and IPSC - it's all expensive, and the requisite gear can almost be prohibitive.

I don't see that changing anytime soon - no matter how many do-it-yourself articles are written on creation of the clothing, and all.

Unless a young shooter can borrow all his shooting battery from Dad - he's probably spending what little spare money he's got on school, gas and girls - not in that order - and he's not buying weapons, ammunition or hats.

The shooting sports are expensive sports, and time has to be allotted to them in order to prosper (ask any trapshooter) - and in the case of the younger shooters - time is at a premium.

For the most part, the generation shooting C&WAS grew up with Westerns - with their romance and moral lessons and scenery - their offspring didn't have those same messages delivered on a weekly basis, so contending with the 'Zombie Apocalypse' or with the callous events of 'Grand Theft Auto' seem more immediate to them, but as soon as they see 'their' money disappear downrange at a high rate of speed - leaving empty hulls, and nothing more than smoke and echoes - their interests wane.

For them - paintball's more attractive.

The other thing is that in the intervening years since the demise of the oater on TV, shooting sports and guns or gun collecting have become suspect in our non-shooting society - and those who enjoy the them and appreciate the skills can (and are) viewed as outside the norm and worth keeping an eye on.

Scouts Out!

Paladin UK · July 24, 2012, 01:57:49 PM

The Brit Gov are really REALLY anti gun, try this one for size....

We have the Home of British shooting...Bisley, did the spend a few mil tarting it up for the Olympics which then could be enjoyed by future shooters?
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!
They have built another shooting venue at horrendous cost that will be torn down after the event!!

Paladin (What fears for his sport

) UK

cpt dan blodgett · July 24, 2012, 03:20:06 PM

Quote from: St. George on July 24, 2012, 08:34:23 AM
For the most part, the generation shooting C&WAS grew up with Westerns - with their romance and moral lessons and scenery - their offspring didn't have those same messages delivered on a weekly basis, so contending with the 'Zombie Apocalypse' or with the callous events of 'Grand Theft Auto' seem more immediate to them, but as soon as they see 'their' money disappear downrange at a high rate of speed - leaving empty hulls, and nothing more than smoke and echoes - their interests wane.

For them - paintball's more attractive.

Scouts Out!

Would it be terribly bad if say in 20 years guys dressed up like cowboys were banging away at targets painted like zombies?

Cohagen · July 24, 2012, 09:35:44 PM

Good thinkin Pards, but is there any way to attract new sahooters....Specific things thar clubs can implement in short order...

The suggestion to include more reactive targets seems to make sense....Anymore?

?

Sacramento Johnson · July 24, 2012, 10:02:10 PM

Greetings!
I think St. George has hit upon a number of the reasons for the decline of CAS.
I do believe CAS is slowly dying back. It may survive as a small, fringe firearm sport/game, probably for those too old and infirm to compete with the faster moving, more agility requiring other firearm disciplines, but who still want to compete in some sort of firearm sport, and don't mind the old fashioned firearms or (fairly minimal) western clothing requirements.

I haven't really seen any significant downturn in participation at the local clubs here in Las Vegas, rather, I've seen stagnating membership rolls for a number of years. It's been this way here, even before the economy went bad, so I think the reasons for lack of CAS growth in Las Vegas are probably fairly specific to this area.

As for my dwindling CAS participation, there are several reasons. I've grown weary of the 'big and close' mentality, where speed and simplicity are king, which pervades most of the local clubs here. If I do go to a local shoot, it's usually with smokeless powder; shooting my big booming loads of fine goex is unappreciated by most of the local shooters, and the clean up time for black powder is more than I want to spend for such an inconsequential match.
Lastly, most of the pards I used to enjoy meeting with at matches have either left the game, the area or life. The majority of the ones now there I just can't relate to.

El Coyote · July 24, 2012, 10:16:03 PM

As a new to CAS shooter in my late 20s I will say that the two big things that keep younger shooters away are the costume and alias requirement. If you would limit those requirements then you may attract some new shooters.

Now if you want to attract new shooters that are ok with the costume and alias requirement then maybe your clubs should try recruiting at the local Renaissance Faire. The young crowd that you find there are drawn to it for many of the same reason's as we are to CAS shooting. I'm not sure how to recruit at a ren faire, I know they have lots of themed days and parades, maybe work your club into a parade or get a booth and show up in costume and do some chatting with the folks.

Another idea is to figure out a way to sponsor some young shooters for a shoot every few months. One in which they do not need to provide the rigs or firearms. Maybe hand out invites at local shooting events. Just a few ideas on things you could do.

Just a few ideas on things you can do. I hope that helps.

RickB · July 24, 2012, 10:37:34 PM

I am not too into the alias thing myself, but if you cut out the wearing of cowboy dress then it ceases to be Cowboy Action Shooting. Might as well just go shooting any gun dressed in a T-shirt and jeans with tennis shoes.

IMO I would rather see the sport fade away than to water it down like that. That would destroy CAS/WAS and what it was designed to be.

El Coyote · July 24, 2012, 11:02:26 PM

Quote from: RickB on July 24, 2012, 10:37:34 PM
I am not too into the alias thing myself, but if you cut out the wearing of cowboy dress then it ceases to be Cowboy Action Shooting. Might as well just go shooting any gun dressed in a T-shirt and jeans with tennis shoes.

IMO I would rather see the sport fade away than to water it down like that. That would destroy CAS/WAS and what it was designed to be.

Notice I said limit those requirements not do away with them. While frequenting other boards in the firearms community and asking about CAS at least two or three people would chime in each time and talk about bad experiences with the dress codes at shoots. Now my club lets me shoot in jeans boots and a pearl snap, but others had a very different experience.

Cemetery · July 25, 2012, 12:55:10 PM

Quote from: El Coyote on July 24, 2012, 10:16:03 PM
As a new to CAS shooter in my late 20s I will say that the two big things that keep younger shooters away are the costume and alias requirement. If you would limit those requirements then you may attract some new shooters.

Now if you want to attract new shooters that are ok with the costume and alias requirement then maybe your clubs should try recruiting at the local Renaissance Faire. The young crowd that you find there are drawn to it for many of the same reason's as we are to CAS shooting. I'm not sure how to recruit at a ren faire, I know they have lots of themed days and parades, maybe work your club into a parade or get a booth and show up in costume and do some chatting with the folks.

Another idea is to figure out a way to sponsor some young shooters for a shoot every few months. One in which they do not need to provide the rigs or firearms. Maybe hand out invites at local shooting events. Just a few ideas on things you could do.

Just a few ideas on things you can do. I hope that helps.

Best group of people to recruit from are the Steampunk set. They do have an interest here in my neck of the woods, but again time and money play a big factor......

Dick Dastardly · July 25, 2012, 04:51:37 PM

The heat and the economy have slowed participation. I'll be shooting this Saturday at Oconomowoc. Aug 4 I'll be at the Rock River Regulators shoot at Beloit, WI. I do see participation off some, but I think there's a pent up bunch waiting for stuff to improve.

I don't wait. I shoot.

DD-MDA

Roosterman · July 26, 2012, 01:21:58 PM

How about this? I know it will shake you guys up, but...... How about emphasizing accuracy over speed?

It would bring me back in the game.

Okefinokee Outlaw · July 26, 2012, 01:43:36 PM

If you're seeking accuracy over speed, then consider NCOWS. Also, an alias is optional.

hellgate · July 26, 2012, 03:02:14 PM

Roosterman,
Speed sells more "stuff" and services. It's my opinion that the increased emphasis on speed is both a result of the quest for light hearted bragging points and creating a demand to sell better leather, gunsmithing services and/or redisigned parts, "how to" classes, faster guns, etc. etc. That is both good and bad. I miss the good old days when we did more play acting (flipping pancakes, throwing dynamite, cutting cards, shooting from within or on top of stage coaches, etc., all on the clock). The more shooters you have in a match the less you can do that or risk bottlenecks by having inconsistant stages. 10, 10, 4 can get pretty boring too. Big matches don't get sponsors or donations unless there's a chance the donor might gain customers through the goodwill & exposure. I like accuracy too. I wish there were more bonus targets far away to fling lead at.

PJ Hardtack · July 26, 2012, 05:02:29 PM

Having just recently shot a 20th anniversary CAS event, I can vouch for the fact that the majority were 'over-the-hill' grey beards that need a mirror to tell if their boots are on the right feet. They were many 'absent friends' from that first shoot in 1992 and precious few young 'uns, the sons and daughters of the above mentioned demographic.

None of the shooting sports are PC in today's climate, the past couple of generations inculcated with the anti-gun agenda of the social engineers. That doesn't explain the popularity of violent shoot-em-up video games and movies with our couch potato youth.

We grew up with the western heroes and anti-heroes, and right always prevailed. It was an era of nostalgic reminiscence of a simpler, less complicated time when men were men, and women were double breasted as well as the suits.

The cost of getting into the game is also prohibitive to many, and not just the kids. We are feeling the global effects of the Euro-zone monetary crisis.

As for speed vs accuracy, if you don't want to play with the race gunners, then don't. For the first time in a major match, I shot 'Frontiersman' along with two other guys from my club. We placed 1st, 2nd and 3rd in the category, way ahead of the others in the same class.
We had a ball shooting against each other and letting the bears chase each other.