Old 1851 Uberti

[bob2ovi]

I'm not sure if this is the proper place for this question or not, but here goes

I own an old uberti 1851 and would like some info if possible. The serial# is 10xx. The only markings on the gun are " Navy Arms Co" on top of the barrel and left side of the frame; there is a small G U in script double struck on the right side of the barrel just above and to the right go the wedge slot; there are a couple matching assembly numbers on the barrel and arbor; and that is it. No date code no proof marks

In Dennis Adlers book, Val Sr. states he and Aldo signed a contract for 6,000 pistols in 1958, but no mention of and previous dealings, although he does mention the use of Uberti using GU on early guns.

Since my gun has no date code but stamped Navy Arms I am confused as you would think it should have a date of 1958 or after. I don't think this is a kit gun as it has a sr# assay #s, and it has the typical coloring of other old Uberties.

I would appreciate any light you may be able to shed on this gun.

[Pettifogger]

You have an old one.  I have one GU gun.  I forget the exact name but it's something like Gregori & Uberti.  They were partners and made some guns before Uberti started his own company.

[Fingers McGee]

You have a Gregorelli & Uberti Navy that was made probably around 1960.  I have a pair of Navy Arms GU Griswold & Gunnisons.  One has a date code of 1960 and the other, like yours, has none.  The one dated 1960 is serial numbered 17XX.  The undated one is serial number 10XX.  Gregorelli and Uberti made Navy reproductions for Navy Arms from 1958 until about 1962 when Aldo Uberti took over.  Navy Arms was founded on a handshake between Val Forgett and William B. Edwards in 1957 with Vittorio Gregorelli as the manufacturer.

There is a very interesting chapter on the beginnings of the replica industry in William B. Edwards book "Civil War Guns"

[bob2ovi]

Thanks for the response.

I didn't realize that Edwards was involved in reproductions until now, that is a good article, I never thought to reference his book.. Adler has a good article by Val Forgett in his " Colt Black Powder Reproductions and Replicas ". What is throwing me, is that Adler shows date codes from 1954 on and mine has no date code. Looks like our undated ones were made in 1958, or 1959. Do you know for sure?

Has your undated one been proofed? This is the other unusual thing about the one I have. I'm not worried about just curious.

[Fingers McGee]

My undated one has no proof marks anywhere -at least that is visible without disassembling the gun.  To my knowledge, when I got them, they had never been so much as cocked, muchless taken apart.  They still have the original grease on them - or at least vestiges of it.  From what I know, the date codes from 1954 on was the standardization of markings for all guns manufactured in Italy, not just the replica industry that got started in 1958.  

My only guess about not being dated or proof marked is that the first couple years they weren't too strict about what got out???

I figure that the undated ones were made in 58 or 59,maybe as late as 60

[bob2ovi]

Thanks for the reply:

I agree, since both pistols are absent of both markings it looks tike that was standard practice at that time.

Mine has been turned, and taken apart with the wrong screwdriver, but other wise in very good condition.
I have fixed the screw heads, and plan to shoot it. I am a shooter rather than a collector.

[Fingers McGee]

Thanks for the reply:

I agree, since both pistols are absent of both markings it looks tike that was standard practice at that time.

Mine has been turned, and taken apart with the wrong screwdriver, but other wise in very good condition.
I have fixed the screw heads, and plan to shoot it. I am a shooter rather than a collector.

I'm a a colletor and a shooter - around 50/50.  Some get well used while others are kept NIB.  These two; because fo their age & rarity, will be kept unfired.  I have many others that get lots of powder wads & balls through them.

[Wolfgang]

 I have a '58 Remington that has no proof marks or makers marks on it.  Figure it has to be Pietta as Pietta cylinders fit and index just fine.  It has a very low serial number ( 270 ) on the frame under the grip.  This was quite a mystery to me, .... but now I see that other very early imports also had no such markings.  How did they get out of Italy without being proofed ?   Or was proofing only required on cartridge guns at that time ?  Or were they "kit guns" ?  Shipped unassembled ?  Very curious.