PC Hats

One-eyed Jack · July 17, 2012, 01:22:28 PM

Howdy,

I'm trying to get my hat right for the late 1800's. Is there a source for what is correct for the period as far as blocking/styles. Is the "Gus" hat seen so much today an authentic style for the period.

All help and comments appreciated.

One-eyed Jack

St. George · July 17, 2012, 01:59:20 PM

Please take the time to read the 'back pages' of this forum, and those in the 'NCOWS Forum', as well - there are many, many threads involving headgear.

Vaya,

Irish Dave · July 18, 2012, 10:00:36 AM

I think it is safe to say that the "gus crease" is generally accepted as a modern style and not authentic to the period.

As to styles, St. George is correct. There are several threads on the forums he mentioned that have addressed correct period headgear. They should provide significant info and answers to what is always a complicated question.

Delmonico · July 18, 2012, 10:42:16 AM

Quote from: Irish Dave on July 18, 2012, 10:00:36 AM

Of course that is ignoring the fact that pictures of them and the modern "cattleman" crease exist in the time period. But today I am way to busy unpacking and cleaning gear from the weekend to drag them back out.

Were either the most common, no, but there isn't really one most common shape, they varied by region, taste and most often, by the way an open crown hat formed itself over the years.

The "pinch slope" hat, also sometimes called the Tom Horn or Gus after them showing up in movies evolved from removing an open crown hat by grabbing the front of the crown with the thumb and the index, plus the middle finger. It is still the best way to form such a shape.

What is more important to the persona in question is that the time period is mentioned, but the place and occupation is not. I am a man of many hats, this last weekend I chose a telescope crown palm leaf with a 5 inch brim because there was only one small awning for shade and it's hard to cook under an awning.

I never went outside this weekend with out my hat:

(That is River City John's converted Swiss Vetterli, he so kindly spared me 5 rounds and it was fun to shoot before breakfast.)

One-eyed Jack · July 18, 2012, 03:39:59 PM

Thanks to all replied. I didn't just post this without at least looking for appropriate threads. I found some related threads but nothing that seemed authoritatively to say yes or no. Apparently I am not using the correct keywords to find the threads. Could you please either tell me how to successfully search or point me to the proper threads.

I do appreciate folks time and don't want to waste any of it.

And if I may be so bold as to ask another: did hats of the period have lacquer or whatever is used on hats today to make them stiff or were they just soft and floppy. As Delmonico pointed out, hats tended to taken on the shape of however they were repeatedly removed. Modern stiff hats wouldn't do that...

thanks

Delmonico · July 18, 2012, 04:14:01 PM

Shellac is what is used as a hat stiffener and yes they did. But most of the time they weren't in a big hurry to go back to the western store and have their hat cleaned, stiffened and reblocked. Also a good hat will keep a lot of it's shape with out being re-stiffened.

Since the majority of hats were sold with open crowns and flat brims, the shape was most often put in there by the owner on purpose or accidental.

Remember in the movie Monty Walsh when Monty went to Chet's wedding and had the new hat? On the way to the saloon he dipped it in the rain barrel and walked down the street shaping it, one of my favorite movie scenes of all time.

One-eyed Jack · July 19, 2012, 08:42:08 AM

I do remember that scene from Monty Walsh - an Excellent movie - and probably then one that made me accept Tom Selleck as a cowboy...

I think my plan is to use my "Gus" hat as my dress hat and then get an open crowned non-stiffened hat as my work/slouch hat and just let it take its own shape.

thanks for replays

One-eyed Jack

Delmonico · July 19, 2012, 09:24:12 AM

At risk of POing people, I've seen more pictures of the pinch slope type hats that windstrings in historical pictures and yet there are some out there that say the former didn't exist, while wearing the later.

A couple I have handy now that I remember where I filed them, first is Pawnee Bill, said to be in the 1870's:

The second is a Woodmen of the World meeting just west of Grand Island in the late 1880's or early 1890's, (the exact date excapes me at the moment) out of the Butcher Collection:

The ways to do a pinch slope varies as you can see in these two pictures.

Daniel Nighteyes · July 19, 2012, 04:34:46 PM

Here's a "radical" suggestion. Why don't you just get an open-crowned, flat-brimmed hat and let your own CAS journey and related events shape it? This will possibly be the most historically-accurate way to determine its eventual shape.

Regards as always,

-- Nighteyes

Cliff Fendley · July 19, 2012, 04:48:42 PM

That is the best way to do it.

I have a silverbelly Resistol that started out as an open crown 30 some odd years ago. It's taken on several shapes throughout my adventures in life.

Now it has become one of my main hats I wear CAS and I have it in somewhat of a gus styling.

Delmonico · July 19, 2012, 05:28:46 PM

The big problem is most folks want that look like they just walked out of a dry goods store, nothing wrong with that if that is what you want. Myself I kind of like that well worn look:

But what I wear at living history events is what is no longer suitable for me to wear to work and has been patched up. I keep mending them till there is nothing left to mend, that may have happened to one of my favorite shirts last weekend.

Now my young helper likes to look spiffy which is fine also.

GunClick Rick · July 26, 2012, 08:52:42 PM

You better watch it Delmonico,it's been a dry spell around here fer awhile and you look pretty good in the mornin shootin that rifle,and you can cook!

Pancho Peacemaker · July 26, 2012, 09:29:10 PM

The bigger the brim and crown, the better . . .

GunClick Rick · July 26, 2012, 10:41:29 PM

Quote from: Pancho Peacemaker on July 26, 2012, 09:29:10 PM
The bigger the brim and crown, the better . . .

HogDoc Olliday · November 09, 2012, 02:56:04 PM

Here is an interesting site and page. Scroll down for hats...

http://www.curtrich.com/GettingStarted06.html

Delmonico · November 12, 2012, 03:00:51 PM

Interesting, like so many they list the cattleman crease as modern. I guess this fella in West Union Nebraska in 1886 hadn't got the word.

It shows up from time to time. Either that or this guy is going to a Brooks and Dunn Concert.

TwoWalks Baldridge · November 13, 2012, 09:38:41 AM

Del are you sure that fellow was not photo shopped in? I hear all the time that a fellow would not be seen in town or in the presence of a lady without a coat or at least a vest on.

Delmonico · November 13, 2012, 09:45:30 AM

Quote from: TwoWalks Baldridge on November 13, 2012, 09:38:41 AM
Del are you sure that fellow was not photo shopped in? I hear all the time that a fellow would not be seen in town or in the presence of a lady without a coat or at least a vest on.

Haw, I've been told that before also, who ever said that never went through the Butcher Collection. Could be it don't count with sod busters, but there are plenty of them with out in the collection. but, see he wanted people to be as natural as the methods of the time and the person footing the bill for the picture would allow.

Delmonico · November 13, 2012, 10:18:14 AM

BTW these were scanned from the glass negatives and I know the guy who got them scanned so it's on the up and up.

Now Butcher did "Photoshop" a few of his for effect, but his primitive program on his coal oil fired computer is no where as good as what we have to day and if you look close you can see what is "Photo-shopped" in.