Some help with Samuel H Walker's flap holster

john beattie · July 12, 2012, 03:07:54 PM

Hi Guys
Can anyone tell me what held the flap on these holsters, as you can see from the photo there is no sam brown on the holster and no hole in the strap, i first thought maybe the sam brown was reversed and on the flap with that fancy stud covering the rivet, but it's a little hight up so im thinking that is just a decorative rivet, it can't be a press stud/snap fasteners as they never come about for another 35 year or so.
so what held the flap down ? and can rivets like that in the photo be bought anywere.Tandy do some snap fasteners close but a rivet would be best.
many thanks
john

The photo is from Guns of the American West by Dennis Adler page 4

WaddWatsonEllis · July 12, 2012, 11:38:27 PM

Quote from: john beattie on July 12, 2012, 03:07:54 PM
Hi Guys
Can anyone tell me what held the flap on these holsters, as you can see from the photo there is no sam brown on the holster and no hole in the strap, i first thought maybe the sam brown was reversed and on the flap with that fancy stud covering the rivet, but it's a little hight up so im thinking that is just a decorative rivet, it can't be a press stud/snap fasteners as they never come about for another 35 year or so.
so what held the flap down ? and can rivets like that in the photo be bought anywere.Tandy do some snap fasteners close but a rivet would be best.
many thanks
john

The photo is from Guns of the American West by Dennis Adler page 4

Hi,

David Carrico's webpage on military holsters might help a bit ... zoom these thing out and see if seems any better. I have seen these brass 'posts' talked about on the leatherworking site but cannot forget what they are called .... then again, the Confederate cavalry used a much simpler flap closure ... and it might be easiest to dset one up like this ... again, refer to David Carrico's webpage ... (http://www.carricoleather.com/militarybeltsholsters.html).

Best of luck in your search ...

GunClick Rick · July 13, 2012, 12:41:18 AM

probably a small stud under the flap and a notch in that little strap and when you opened it you pulled the strap up and fast,or there is a small loop that the strap goes through under the flap,lift the flap some pull the strap through..Sort of like this one Ned Buckshot made for me..

Darn ain't it purty though

john beattie · July 13, 2012, 04:50:41 AM

Thanks for the site Wadd i will look into it and see what they have.

I see what your saying Rick that sounds like a possibility a small loop like your photo but under the flap to pass the strap through
but again i will try and find out if there is any kind of hardwear that may have been used.

many thanks

john

Slowhand Bob · July 13, 2012, 07:33:37 AM

Not sure why someone would have chosen the retention security of a 'non-mechanical' closure but it appears that it was just molded to lay over the top of the grip as photographed. In such a case perhaps protection from the elements was a primary concern and not dealing with a secure fastener was a secondary concern (speed?)?? I can see no signs of a button slit or other provisions on the strap or holster front. I agree that the small concho type strap attachment appears to be placed to high to be an engagement on the holster front but who knows what lies under there, perhaps a hidden second strap for anchoring the gun??

WaddWatsonEllis · July 13, 2012, 07:47:43 AM

Hi,

My guess that it is somewhat like the flap closure that closes the C.S. Holster in the David Carrico Site .... and if so, it would not be hard to sew a flap closure like the one shown ...

TTFN,

I forgot to put David Carrico's webpage on here with his military holsters ... so here it is:

http://www.carricoleather.com/militarybeltsholsters.html

Drayton Calhoun · July 17, 2012, 09:05:13 AM

I think Rick is right on the loop that the strap goes through under the edge of the flap. If you look at how flat the strap lays and the absence of any distortion on the edges towards the top, I would have to go with the loop.

john beattie · July 17, 2012, 12:51:46 PM

Hi Drayton
Yes i think this is the way im going to do it, it seems the most logical and the guy how wants the holster agrees

Now has anyone got any idea were i might get hold of a rivet like the one in the photo, or something similar, it looks to be around 13mm (1/2")

john

GunClick Rick · July 17, 2012, 01:03:19 PM

I have a collar button somethin like that..Flat with pearl and a red ruby looking stone in the center~

St. George · July 17, 2012, 01:20:04 PM

Having owned a number of old holsters quite similar in construction - all of mine featured a small stud - hidden by the flap - that the strap's keyhole-shaped slot slipped over.

A strap that has to slide under another strap - yet remain hidden by the decorative flap - would almost guarantee deformation of the flap, and would make it a two-handed affair in securing the flap - and those flaps were meant to be secure - forming, in effect - a leather 'envelope' to protect the weapon.

The C.S. use of leather-under-leather came about largely because of a distinct lack of spare metals to be used - this holster well precedes that timeframe.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

WaddWatsonEllis · July 17, 2012, 02:43:19 PM

Hi, I have a civilian holster for my Starr that has a maker's mark of "HB' where the second vertical H is also the first verticle line in the 'B'...

Any way, since it is probably aimed to look like one post Civil War (or the War of the Northern Aggression depending which side you identify with), it is closely patterned after the Military 1885 holster. Of note is that it has exacllty the same flap securing system as a a CS holster ....

I dunno if this helps or muddles the situation ...

TTFN

john beattie · July 18, 2012, 03:48:17 AM

Thanks Rick, i'll take a look at some collar button's and see if i can find one that looks the same.

George and Wadd thank you both for your thoughts, i found this site, if you scroll down to the last holster it has the same setup a thin strap with no visible fastening method, so iv'e dropped them an email to ask, with luck they will be kind enough to answer

http://www.jarnaginco.com/pistols%20and%20holsters.htm

all the best
john

WaddWatsonEllis · July 23, 2012, 02:27:03 PM

Best Of Luck to You Too,

'Course we want to see pics when you are done ....

TTFN,

Tascosa Joe · July 23, 2012, 03:35:00 PM

WWE: HB is Homer Brown out of Kentucky. He makes some really nice stuff.

WaddWatsonEllis · July 23, 2012, 04:15:50 PM

Quote from: Tascosa Joe on July 23, 2012, 03:35:00 PM
WWE: HB is Homer Brown out of Kentucky. He makes some really nice stuff.

Thanks Tascosa Joe,

I had always wondered about the HB on the holster ... there are several antique holster makers with a very similar mark, but none exactly like mine ... I will have to Wikipedia it and look him up ... the holster was an extra feature when I bought the (Pietta) Starr Double Action that is inside the holster ... the belt is an old 'jeans' belt that I added on with a Tandy buckle ...