Stove pipe boots pale rider boots out of pants or tucked inside fit issues?

[Bonnie_blue1861]

I hope this is an alright spot to post this question...not sure where else to put it. I have a pair of stove pipe boots...the Oak tree Pale Rider boots and they are very comfortable on my feet... almost like wearing sneakers. I'm not doing any sort of re enacting but appreciate the history of old west culture and wear such clothing.

I was reading about depending on the time frame your looking to depict, you can wear your stove pipe boots with pants legs tucked in or out. For an early look or riding, etc, wear them with the pants legs on the inside and for a latter look or town use, wear the pants legs on the outside.

Wearing stove pipe boots is just fine on the outside, with the pants tucked in ...but when I want to wear my pants over the top over my Pale Rider boots I notice that the top diameter or circumference of the boots are just too darn big for my calves. I'm 6'1" and 210 lbs, so its not a matter of my size...at least I don't think so.

I read somewhere that they make these Oak Tree Pale Rider brand boots "wider at the calf, for people today who are heavier on the hoof".  I realize people weigh more today than back in the late 1800's but are they implying that people today are just a heck of a lot heavier and so they generically cut them all for heavy people with huge calves?

I have just too darn much leather left, rolled up next to my legs, when wearing my boots on the inside. Has anyone else found this to be uncomfortable and annoying since the boot is sort of bent/folded over inside your pants leg?

When your pants are tucked in, its really not an issue but you can still see that there is around 1.5-2" too much leather around the calf, inviting stuff to get in there..like dirt, bugs, stickers and thorns, etc. 

[St. George]

I routinely wear a pair of 16" Cathedral-stitched 'Tonto Rim' stovepipes both ways.

If you're wearing a straight-legged trouser with them as I do, they should fit fine, but if they're more modern cut - a'la 'boot-cut' then they'll be too tight.

Regular Levi's and Wranglers work well, too - but then, they're straight-cut.

Try a different brand of trousers - like the ones sold by Wah-Maker.

As to folks being heavier today - just look around...

Way back when - the average male wasn't a full 5'6" - that didn't happen until WWI, when the size of the Doughboy in the AEF stood 5'6" and weighed 156 lbs.

Guys today wouldn't be cowboys - not unless there were herds of Clydesdales hoofing it across the purple plains - they'd be teamsters and freighters, because of their weight and girth, and there being few horses that'd accomodate them.

Good Luck!

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[Deadeye Dick]

Bonnie Blue,
As you seem to period oriented, I'd like to invite you to check out NCOWS. Many of us are period old west heritage shooters and many of us just like old west heritage and arms or both. We have a quarterly magazine " The Shootist " that is chock full of period information.
You can check out our website at    http://www.ncows.org/       and/or you can check out NCOWS on the CAS forum.
I think you'll find us a friendly and helpful bunch.
Deadeye Dick

[Bonnie_blue1861]

Thanks for the replies. I suppose I could try a different type of trousers....more of a boot leg cut. I normally now wear Lee or Wranglers. I won't wear the Levi's anymore after all that nonsense a while back with them and their politics aimed at the Boy Scouts. Heck.... even Ol' Willie changed the verse to his song from "Lonestar belt buckles and old faded Levis" to "Lonestar belt buckles and old faded Wranglers".

But anyway....I tend to wear my boots with regular jeans, which are more of a straight leg cut, so maybe that's just part of the problem. Still I think that when you stuff your pants legs inside, that large opening just invites stuff to get inside, when walking around the meadow, etc.  I just hate when I get briars in my boots.

Thanks for the info... I'll have to check out that link you posted Deadeye Dick. I'm into both the old west heritage and the arms, so I'm sure I'll enjoy checking it out.

[PJ Hardtack]

St. George

You just made me feel a whole lot better at 5'6" and 140 lbs! That's 5 lbs more than I weighed as a young soldier in my prime. I was once told that I'd have made a good bull rider as most of them are small men with less upper body mass to get flung around by a gyrating bull.

In my IPSC days, I was referred to as the "Deadly Munchkin", but I could 'shoot and scoot' whereas the big boys could not. When I got into CAS, I was shocked at the girths I was seeing and the problems some had getting to their shotshells under the 'overhang'.

I was further shocked when I was told that stages I was designing were too athletic for most. I didn't think that taking cover, kneeling beside a saloon bar or behind an over turned table was athletic .....

We once had a US vet at one of our IPSC matches in the 70s who had lost a leg in Nam. He used a pair of aluminum crutches and negotiated ALL the obstacles that challenged some. He'd throw his crutches over a wall, hoist himself up and over, shoot, holster, retrieve his crutches and carry on.
We told him that we'd gladly make allowances for him and he said - "Hey, no one made any allowances for me over there and I'm damned if you will."

It was enough to choke you up. Some guys are heroes long after the battle is over .....

[pony express]

I was further shocked when I was told that stages I was designing were too athletic for most. I didn't think that taking cover, kneeling beside a saloon bar or behind an over turned table was athletic .....

Our local club is getting that way too. No climbing, sitting/shooting from a horse, stagecoach is removed from the wheels so it can sit flat on the ground. The fort is just a fence, with no steps or raised platform.

If you want to shoot with a bit more activity, you should hitch a ride with Rattlesnake Jack to one of the GAF shoots. At the Muster in Nebraska last year, we had "stages" that took 5-10 MINUTES, covering several hundres yards of movement.

[Skeeter Lewis]

I seem to remember reading in 'We Pointed Them North' by Teddy Blue Abbott that a member of his family criticized him for wearing his pants inside his boots, saying it made him look like an outlaw. So apparently it wasn't 'respectable' to wear them that way.
Not that that would have bothered Teddy.

[Calico Kirby]

"I bought some new clothes and got my picture taken... I had a new white Stetson hat that I paid ten dollars for, and new pants that cost twelve dollars, and a good shirt and fancy boots. Lord, I was proud of those clothes! When my sister saw me, she said: "Take your pants out of your boots and put your coat on. You look like an outlaw." I told her to go to hell. And I never did like her after that. "
Teddy Blue Abbott

[Bonnie_blue1861]

I love it...." I told her to go to hell. And I never did like her after that. " ...you have to respect a man who makes that sort of comment about his own kin.

My wife gets a little upset at me too, if I wear my pants tucked inside my boots. She really gets upset, when I wear spurs on my boots, out in public....to a restaurant, etc. I've received interesting looks from city folks, while walking around the local Walmart wearing spurs on my cruddy old boots. I could care less what others think. I won't get off track commenting on what I think about today's sense of fashion. I figure I've spent plenty of time on a farm, tending to horses, gutting their stalls and shoveling the sh... when I was younger, so if I want to wear my pants tucked in...well I just will.... but I just wont tell my wife to go to... you know where.
 
I'm stuck living in eastern Pennsylvania and to be honest... you really don't see too many folks even wearing cowboy hats where I live. People typically assume I'm from down south. Oh well...that's where my heart is anyway. Not the right part of the county I guess but hope to retire down in Tennessee. 

Having never participated in any sort of organized CAS, I didn't realize that those kind of competitions were getting kinda "watered down". I mean, isn't the whole idea of doing it... to replicate typical scenarios that one could have likely encountered in the old west? Like jumping over a barrel, kneeling or climbing up onto a wagon? Taking the wheels of a stage coach and stuff like that seems to take all the point out of it...at least I would think so. May as well shoot while comfortable, sitting back in your favorite lawn chair.
It's not like they expect you to jump off a two story balcony, down onto a waiting horse, then gallop off full speed shooting (like Hollywood depicts in the western movies). Try actually doing that to a horse and see how how the two of you feel afterwards...you and the horse both with damaged backs (yours from him throwing you) and a saddle abruptly smashed up between your legs. And yet they always gallop away in the movies at full speed.

[St. George]

There's the 'real' Old West - then there's the 'reel' Old West.

Stunts that were movie-related were performed with trained stuntmen and trained horses - they're plot devices.

Horses of the era were far smaller - but then, so was the rider.

Exposed boot tops were primarily for dealing with brush and thickets, while saving the trouser legs from tears and thorns - exposed and decorated tops and the wearing of spurs meant that the wearer was a riding man - not one who made his living grubbing in the dirt.

Teddy Blue Abbott was one of those...

If you're wandering around Wal-Mart wearing spurs - don't be too surprised if you're featured as one of those internet joke 'Wal-Martians'.

If 'that' happens - your wife's gonna be more than upset, and though you may not mind, she does - and in theory - her opinion counts...

Scouts Out!

[Bonnie_blue1861]

Good points on all the Hollywood stunt stuff. It's neat to see in the old westens, but your right, much of it was dreamed up... like the Hollywood holsters, that we have come to love.

But as far as wearing spurs...yea, the wife gets a little upset now and then anyway.
She isn't happy at all watching me wandering around Wal-Mart wearing spurs and using words like "reckon" in the check out line ...but if I did land up on one of those internet internet joke 'Wal-Martians' things... it wouldn't bother me in the least. maybe I'd set a trend

I get amused with watching the people in places such as Walmart; wearing the 3 times too big pants and a crotch at their knees (to the point they can hardly walk), their baseball caps inside out and upside down, turned sideways with all the sales tags still attached to them, their bandannas draped down over one eye... and especially the way they intentionally drag one leg as they do their "gansta stroll". But them some trends like seeing youngsters all wearing what we used to call a sweat shirt, "hoodie" now, with the hood up over their head and sweating like a pig, when its 90+ degrees... still kinda puzzles me.

So I figure if my spurs and boots bring them a laugh, what the heck...life is short.

[Abilene]

...Having never participated in any sort of organized CAS, I didn't realize that those kind of competitions were getting kinda "watered down". I mean, isn't the whole idea of doing it... to replicate typical scenarios that one could have likely encountered in the old west? Like jumping over a barrel, kneeling or climbing up onto a wagon? Taking the wheels of a stage coach and stuff like that seems to take all the point out of it...at least I would think so. May as well shoot while comfortable, sitting back in your favorite lawn chair. ...

If you read a lot about CAS, you will see some folks talking about "the good old days".  Back when targets were further and smaller, actions were done on the clock (throwing hatchets and "dynamite" sticks, shooting arrows, etc).  And wagons may not have been on wheels but they were on springs and rocked when you moved, some shooting was done prone or kneeling, more running up and down stairs, full reloads on the clock, etc. etc.  Some of that is still around, but not a lot.  There are a lot of reasons for these changes, but one of the big ones for less physical action is that the median age (and waistline) of shooters continues to rise, with corresponding bad knees and such, and there are a lot of folks that just can't do that sort of thing any more, so it has been "watered down".  I just always think of NOW as the good ol' days, and enjoy the heck out of it.

I like wearing my duds in public after a shoot.  Generally take off the spurs and guns of course, but wear the rest.  Gets a lot of looks and some questions which gives me a chance to tell folks about cowboy shooting. 

[Delmonico]

Most of the Wal-Marts I hit the oversize pants are out of the norm and the spurs not so much.  But that's only when I don't have time to run and get supplies when the local owned grocery store is open.

[Judge Roy Bean]

These are suppose to be back in business again .
http://www.buffalorunnerboots.com/index.htm

[Drayton Calhoun]

Oddest thing I ever saw was a feller on a Harley, leather jacket, chaps, cowboy boots and...spurs. I'll leave it at that!

[Delmonico]

Oddest thing I ever saw was a feller on a Harley, leather jacket, chaps, cowboy boots and...spurs. I'll leave it at that!

What's odd about that?  It's quite common.  Often the spurs have the name of a late friend engraved on them.

[DUKE DEADEYE NUKEM]

Cool

[Bonnie_blue1861]

Your a lucky man Duke...a bunch of nice boots and a pretty cowgirl too.

I only have a pair of the Pale Rider style boots in the brown...but the black boots are pretty nice too.

I also own a pair of cathedral boots in black with white stitching, but I can only use them for household decor. I hung some "authentic reproduction" Indian War spurs on them and really like them.... I'd wear them, but unfortunately they are not "real leather". I bought them used online, only to later discover the seller didn't disclose these were made of patent leather not real leather. The patent leather looks nice but it isn't something I'd want to wear or get wet, etc.

I'm still hoping to eventually pick up a pair of cathedrals I can wear and not worry about scraping them up.

[DUKE DEADEYE NUKEM]

Your a lucky man Duke...a bunch of nice boots and a pretty cowgirl too.

I only have a pair of the Pale Rider style boots in the brown...but the black boots are pretty nice too.

I also own a pair of cathedral boots in black with white stitching, but I can only use them for household decor. I hung some "authentic reproduction" Indian War spurs on them and really like them.... I'd wear them, but unfortunately they are not "real leather". I bought them used online, only to later discover the seller didn't disclose these were made of patent leather not real leather. The patent leather looks nice but it isn't something I'd want to wear or get wet, etc.

I'm still hoping to eventually pick up a pair of cathedrals I can wear and not worry about scraping them up.

Thanks Blue.    Do you have a pic of the type of boots you want? Barbie says she would probably bring some in.

[joec]

I hope this is an alright spot to post this question...not sure where else to put it. I have a pair of stove pipe boots...the Oak tree Pale Rider boots and they are very comfortable on my feet... almost like wearing sneakers. I'm not doing any sort of re enacting but appreciate the history of old west culture and wear such clothing.

I was reading about depending on the time frame your looking to depict, you can wear your stove pipe boots with pants legs tucked in or out. For an early look or riding, etc, wear them with the pants legs on the inside and for a latter look or town use, wear the pants legs on the outside.

Wearing stove pipe boots is just fine on the outside, with the pants tucked in ...but when I want to wear my pants over the top over my Pale Rider boots I notice that the top diameter or circumference of the boots are just too darn big for my calves. I'm 6'1" and 210 lbs, so its not a matter of my size...at least I don't think so.

I read somewhere that they make these Oak Tree Pale Rider brand boots "wider at the calf, for people today who are heavier on the hoof".  I realize people weigh more today than back in the late 1800's but are they implying that people today are just a heck of a lot heavier and so they generically cut them all for heavy people with huge calves?

I have just too darn much leather left, rolled up next to my legs, when wearing my boots on the inside. Has anyone else found this to be uncomfortable and annoying since the boot is sort of bent/folded over inside your pants leg?

When your pants are tucked in, its really not an issue but you can still see that there is around 1.5-2" too much leather around the calf, inviting stuff to get in there..like dirt, bugs, stickers and thorns, etc. 

I actually prefer to wear my boots inside the pants legs however I have the Boulet style shooter and stove pipes. It seems they should give the bottom part of the leg about 1" more in dia. to fit over the boots and it would allow the to either tuck or go over the boot.