size difference between colt walker and No2 dragoon

john beattie · July 03, 2012, 01:40:48 PM

Hi guy's
Iv'e just been asked if i can make a slim jim for a 1847 colt walker, i don't have one in my collection although im looking

none of the patterns i have are for the walker, i have a No2 Dragoon,from looking through some books im thinking the flat part of the barrel were the wedge is looks a little longer on the walke,r the guy tells me the barrel is 9" but is the width of the cylinder and length of the frame close to the Dragoon.
Do you think i can get away with using the Dragoon if made it a little longer

any help would be great
many thanks
john

Trailrider · July 03, 2012, 09:39:51 PM

I don't have a pattern for the 2nd Model Dragoon, but have verified patterns for both the 3rd Model Dragoon and the Walker. If you are making a holster that is fairly close-contoured to the shape of the gun on the main seam, then you need to extend both the length of the holster by about 1-1/2 inches, and you need to extend the bulge where the rammer knuckle is by the same amount. The muzzle of the holsters are the same. I would lay out a pattern using your Dragoon pattern and keep the same contour around the trigger guard. Draw a line from one side of the corner of the muzzle to the point where the lower part of the trigger guard contour begins to transition downward. Slide your Dragoon pattern down so it is about 1-1/2 inches further down at the point where it dips in front of the rammer knuckle. That should give you the right adjustment. Draw this on heavy packing paper or paper grocery bag. Mark the middle of the pattern both top and bottom. Connect the mid-line and fold the paper at the centerline. You can then cut the contour for the other side of the patter. Flatten it out and glue to mat board, and you have your pattern. To show what I mean by the contour, go to www.gunfighter.com/trailrider and look at the #1851 Utah Scout. Although the holster shown is for a M1851 Colt's Navy, the general pattern is the same.

Hope this was of some help, and not just a confusing muddle. I know what I'm talking about...just not sure if anyone else can understand it!

john beattie · July 04, 2012, 03:01:01 AM

Thank you for that Trailrider that's excellent and all understood, it's one heck of a big gun to hang on your belt if you ask me, there can't be many people like to carry one around.

Thank's again for your help
all the best
john

Trailrider · July 04, 2012, 02:31:46 PM

Quote from: john beattie on July 04, 2012, 03:01:01 AM
Thank you for that Trailrider that's excellent and all understood, it's one heck of a big gun to hang on your belt if you ask me, there can't be many people like to carry one around.

Thank's again for your help
all the best
john

The first holster I made for a Walker was for a gent who IIRC was about 5' 3", and must have weighed 110 lbs...with the Walker! His belt size was about 30". If he sneezed, I hope he was wearing clean underwear, because I don't know how he kept his pants up ordinarily!

Nary a complaint from him, however. The Walker, and the Dragoons that followed were originally intended to be horze pistols (uh, horse pistols...the other people packing handguns in their reticules...handbags...used much smaller ones!) The average individual, especially cavalry or dragoons, were nowhere near the size of "Josey Wales". That's why the smaller '49 and especially the M1851 Colt's Navy became so popular.

Cliff Fendley · July 04, 2012, 02:44:42 PM

John, see if he will trace his revolver and send you the tracing. This way you can add to the Dragoon where necessary.

I had a fellow do this with a Dance and Brothers replica and I was able to make minor adjustments and use the Colt for fitting. He said it was a perfect fit.

john beattie · July 05, 2012, 02:28:16 AM

Trailrider, I think there must be something about little guys and big guns, before the pistol ban here in the uk

i was a member of a club and there was a little guy with a 44 mag, he used nothing but factory ammo and unloaded all six as fast as he could pull the trigger, he used to say he just loved the feel of it going off, he was up on his heel's most of the time trying to keep his balance.

Hi Cliff
That's exactly what i did and when i gave him my address he come back and siad he only lived 1hr up the road

so all should be ok.
Thanks for the thought

all the best
john

Drayton Calhoun · July 05, 2012, 02:24:23 PM

I did a little research and figured out if you scan the pattern for a standard slim jim and enlarge it to 109% it is nearly perfect for a Dragoon and 115% works great for a Walker. On my printer/scanner, though, I had to cut and piece the pattern then transfer it to posterboard.

john beattie · July 05, 2012, 04:53:35 PM

Quote from: Drayton Calhoun on July 05, 2012, 02:24:23 PM
I did a little research and figured out if you scan the pattern for a standard slim jim and enlarge it to 109% it is nearly perfect for a Dragoon and 115% works great for a Walker. On my printer/scanner, though, I had to cut and piece the pattern then transfer it to posterboard.

Thanks Drayton, that sounds like an good idea ,i'll give that a try and see how it fits the outline drawing when it arrives

many thanks
john

Drayton Calhoun · July 07, 2012, 09:57:25 PM

I'll try to get a pic on here, but, with us raising three small grandsons, I don't have much time for anything anymore! LOL

Boothill Bob · July 08, 2012, 02:26:15 AM

I found this.. Wonder if the large pattern vill work for the walker if you makes it longer? http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=19714

Drayton Calhoun · July 10, 2012, 12:27:16 AM

Those are some good patterns, Bob, especially the carving patterns. Whether it will work for a Dragoon or Walker, I'm not sure.

Slowhand Bob · July 10, 2012, 08:26:31 AM

Tandy had out a couple of pattern sets for the cap and ball pistols many years ago. The problem was that they always added a skirt on the holsters BUT the upside is that these can be easily deleted and a separate belt loop added. Others will probably know more then I, but I think Tandy now offers all these old pattern sets again as downloadable patterns for sale? Now fer the clincher, they had a nice Walker pattern in the set also! My complaint was the lack of a Dragoon pattern.

Sir Charles deMouton-Black · July 10, 2012, 12:43:19 PM

Quote from: Boothill Bob on July 08, 2012, 02:26:15 AM
I found this.. Wonder if the large pattern vill work for the walker if you makes it longer? http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=19714

"[#10171] You do not have permission to view this attachment.

You are not signed in"

I guess I'll have to join yet another forum

Drayton Calhoun · July 10, 2012, 01:11:13 PM

LOL Sir Charles, I did that last night! Gotta explore now....

john beattie · July 10, 2012, 03:30:58 PM

Hi Guys
In the end i went with Drayton's idea and blow up on the printer a copy of will's jesse james pattern, i went 109% then added some to the length.
The Dragoon fits well so will have to wait to see what the guy says about the walker but going of his outline he sent it should be fine.
so here she is, i had to put the pocket revolver next to it just to show the size difference, it sure is a hell of a cannon.
Many thanks for everyone's input much appreciated.

all the best
john

Dalton Masterson · July 17, 2012, 07:46:13 AM

Very nice job on that holster.

The only issue I might see would be that the cylinder is a little longer on the Walker, if I remember correctly.
They made the Dragoons take a smaller powder charge (50 gr) by making the cylinder shorter. The Walker is a 60 gr beast.
DM

Drayton Calhoun · July 17, 2012, 08:53:59 AM

True, the Walker is proportioned differntly than the Dragoon. The 115% is kinda iffy, it works but it is tight right at the end of the cylinder. The patterns I used for the Dragoon were the Tandy patterns just scanned them and enlarged. I kept the skirt on the Dragoon. I think the Percussion Pistol Pattern Pak is available again through TLC online download.

Sir Charles deMouton-Black · July 17, 2012, 09:50:08 AM

I don't have either firearm, but isn't the difference mostly in the length? If you have a Dragoon pattern, couldn't you retrace it with the required changes TO THE LENGTH where the dimensions vary? I can see the the entire 1851 pattern would need enlarging

Dalton Masterson · July 17, 2012, 10:26:14 AM

I think the circumference of the parts is pretty much the same, but the other changes were mainly to length of the cylinder and barrel I think. I would assume the loading lever bump is pretty much in the same spot on the barrel between the two.
DM

john beattie · July 18, 2012, 05:34:51 AM

Hi Guys and again thanks for all the help.

this is the outline the guy sent me, he took it from a plan/drewing he bought on ebay, the cylinder is a little longer as Dalton said as is the barrel, but not just the actual round part of the barrel but also the flat part were the wedge goes through, also the loading lever bump is longer, frame and grip look to be the same.

i make it a total of 50mm longer overall to my No2 Dragoon.

john