Two questions about Magtech 12 ga shot shells

[joec]

First question is what do you use to seal the over shot wad if you don't want to crimp the brass? If home made what is the mix etc.

Now my second question is where is the best place to buy shot?  I don't have the means to make my own so I've forced to buy.

Thanks for any input on these questions.

[Fingers McGee]

First question is what do you use to seal the over shot wad if you don't want to crimp the brass? If home made what is the mix etc.
Hot glue, Duco Cement, Elmers Glue, etc.  you get the idea

Now my second question is where is the best place to buy shot?  I don't have the means to make my own so I've forced to buy.

Local Pawn & Gun, virgin or reclaimed shot from Trap/Skeet range.  Stay away from the big box stores, they're usually higher than gun stores

Thanks for any input on these questions.

[Cookie]

#1 - What Fingers said.

Personally, I've used a glue gun, Elmer's glue, plus the "traditional" sealant, waterglass (aka - sodium silicate). Of the three I prefer the glue gun. It's the least pretty option IMO (the others are invisible when dry), but it's easy to apply, and "sets" instantly. Also, it doesn't swell or distort the overshot card like Elmer's glue does. And, it doesn't seem to crack or lose adhesion with age like waterglass does.

#2 - I buy reclaimed shot whenever it pops up on the local want ads. It works just fine and is actually cheaper than if I bought lead and poured my own shot!

It's MUCH MUCH cheaper than buying new (I was just in the local Sportsman's Warehouse and looked for kicks - it was $48 per 25lbs!!! Ouch!  )

[Abilene]

I started out using Elmers Wood Glue, then switched to Waterglass (Sodium Silicate) which dries fast and is period correct.  But it also will get brittle over a few months after loading if you don't shoot them and might not hold.  If I intended to shoot any that had been loaded for months, I just added a little more sealer.  The large jar of Waterglass I had should have lasted many years, but even though I kept it sealed it eventually (maybe 6 or 8 years) hardened in the jar.  So I went back to Elmers Wood Glue, works fine for me.  I squirt a small blob onto the overshot card and swirl it around the edges with a q-tip.

[fourfingersofdeath]

It's MUCH MUCH cheaper than buying new (I was just in the local Sportsman's Warehouse and looked for kicks - it was $48 per 25lbs!!! Ouch!  )

WOW! That's expensive! We have a few guys that make shot on the cowboy scene. They usually charge $15 for 10Kgs (22Lb) which i think is very reasonable.

my mate will give you shot in exchange for pure lead (roofing, flashing lead, etc). Give him 20lbs, he will give you 10lb of shot.

I'm going to Sydney tomorrow, I will check out the shop prices.

[rickk]

#1) - Waterglass (bought a quart on EBay for about $20 bucks) - Easy to apply, dries in a couple minutes. Proven product.

#2) - Usually Ballistic Products, Inc (BPI). Get on their mailing list and watch their sales. Sometimes free or half off shipping on shot. Be particular about the terms of any specials they run. For instance, the last time I ordered some shot, it said to get half off you had to call and order by phone only, and you had to specifically tell the salesperson about the sale - they would not offer the information if you didn't bring it up.

Rick

[joec]

Thanks guys that answered my questions.

[Cookie]

WOW! That's expensive! We have a few guys that make shot on the cowboy scene. They usually charge $15 for 10Kgs (22Lb) which i think is very reasonable.

my mate will give you shot in exchange for pure lead (roofing, flashing lead, etc). Give him 20lbs, he will give you 10lb of shot.

I'm going to Sydney tomorrow, I will check out the shop prices.

Yeah, it's insanely expensive.    Unfortunately metal prices seem to be shooting up across the board, including lead. Luckily in these parts we've got plenty of shotgun clubs and recycled shot pops up for sale often enough that I've only ever needed to buy 1 bag of new shot in the last several years.

I've got another pardner on my posse who makes his own, and his rig is super-simple. Just a coffee can with holes punched in it, suspended over a water trough made from a split water barrel. He pours in molten lead and directs a propane torch at the can to keep it liquid while it drips.

If I had a cheap and ready source of lead, I'd do that instead.

[Fingers McGee]

I started out using Elmers Wood Glue, then switched to Waterglass (Sodium Silicate) which dries fast and is period correct.  But it also will get brittle over a few months after loading if you don't shoot them and might not hold.  If I intended to shoot any that had been loaded for months, I just added a little more sealer.  The large jar of Waterglass I had should have lasted many years, but even though I kept it sealed it eventually (maybe 6 or 8 years) hardened in the jar.  So I went back to Elmers Wood Glue, works fine for me.  I squirt a small blob onto the overshot card and swirl it around the edges with a q-tip.

I had the same experience with the water glass.  It works great if you are loading lots and lots of shells & using them within a few months of loading.  A quart will last you for decades - as long as you can keep it from hardening in the jar, and it has a tendency to crack and disintegrate in a shotgun shell after a year or so.  I ended up throwing out 3/4 quart jar that hardened on me aftter about 4 years.  I use the hot glue gun now.  Lotscleaner & the shells stay sealed almost forever.

[Dick Dastardly]

http://www.recobstargetshop.com/

This has been a good place to buy shot.  Sometimes they have reclaimed shot.  You have to ask.

Now, a question about hot glue and black powder. . . .  Will the hot glue re-melt and glue it's self to the inside of the barrel?  If it does, how do you get it out?

Thanks,

DD-MDA

[joec]

http://www.recobstargetshop.com/

This has been a good place to buy shot.  Sometimes they have reclaimed shot.  You have to ask.

Now, a question about hot glue and black powder. . . .  Will the hot glue re-melt and glue it's self to the inside of the barrel?  If it does, how do you get it out?

Thanks,

DD-MDA

Thanks DD I have bookmarked the site. I have some coming and should be here early next week.

[Fingers McGee]

Now, a question about hot glue and black powder. . . .  Will the hot glue re-melt and glue it's self to the inside of the barrel?  If it does, how do you get it out?

Thanks,

DD-MDA

DD,

I have not noticed that to be the case.  Between the over shot card, cushion wad and overpowder card, the bore is pretty much scoured out.  The fact that you're using 11 ga wads means there aint much but a little burnt powder attached to the barrel walls after ya pull the trigger.

[Dick Dastardly]

Thanks Fingers,

I wasn't trying to steal the thread, but I was curious about the hot glue.  I have some 20ga Magtech brass that I'll give it a try in.  Elmer's has also worked good for me, but some of it stays in the hull and has to be scraped out.

DD-MDA

[joec]

Thanks Fingers,

I wasn't trying to steal the thread, but I was curious about the hot glue.  I have some 20ga Magtech brass that I'll give it a try in.  Elmer's has also worked good for me, but some of it stays in the hull and has to be scraped out.

DD-MDA

No problem on stealing a tread I start. I would like all the information I can get since I really new to reloading myself. So far I've only loaded a few shot shells that I got with my used press when I bought it. At any rate it was a good question that I was going to ask also but you asked first.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

No problem on stealing a tread I start. I would like all the information I can get since I really new to reloading myself. So far I've only loaded a few shot shells that I got with my used press when I bought it. At any rate it was a good question that I was going to ask also but you asked first.

DD;  It wasn't theft, it was given you!!  The question about sealing OS wads was posed in the original post.

[Fingers McGee]

Thanks Fingers,

I wasn't trying to steal the thread, but I was curious about the hot glue.  I have some 20ga Magtech brass that I'll give it a try in.  Elmer's has also worked good for me, but some of it stays in the hull and has to be scraped out.

DD-MDA

I've actually had the same experience with water glass on occasion.

FM

[Cookie]

I've actually had the same experience with water glass on occasion.

FM

Same here. I haven't had any problem with the hot glue gun residue, but when I did use waterglass, sometimes the residue would build up in the shells and need to be scrapped out.

[Pony Racer]

The great thing about Glue gun glue is that it has never gotten brittle on me. It keeps a "rubbery" consistency. It is also usually dry within about 30 minutes - so drying time is negligible and shells can be loaded the evening before a shoot if one finds they are short shells the night before.

I used plain white elmers glue for years and than when they shifted formulas I had issues with consistent seals on every hot or cold shooting days.

I went to glue gun glue probably about 2007/2008 and have never looked back.

Glue guns are cheap and my wife picks me up a bag of glue sticks every other time she runs into a craft store.

PR

[Fairshake]

I posted a in depth article about three or more years ago on the loading of the brass hulls for SASS matches. I did like everyone else and tried all the given ways to do it. No one at that time said anything about the glue gun but I knew about them from a lady who does craft work.
The glue is completely taken out of the barrel with the firing and if you lay down a strip and let it dry, you will see that it is one piece like a plastic fishing worm when dry. It's my guess that it leaves the barrel in that form. This is why I've never found any residue to my guess.
Another point that I would like to make is the glue gun itself. They are made in two sizes and the standard large size is two large and awkward to do the job easy. It will work but it will be a real PITA.
The small gun which uses the small tiny glue sticks and only cost about $4 at Hobby Lobby is the way to go. It is easy to handle and you can lay down what appears to be a very nice looking weld strip above the shot card.
I have some that were loaded 4 years ago and they look as if they were done yesterday.
The biggest mistake that is made with the brass hulls is the belief that the entire hull must be filled to the top to work and that is false. They will do a great job and maybe only 75 - 80 % full from the top.
The biggest problem is that they will not always fall free from the chambers of SXS shotguns and must be pulled by hand which makes for some slow stage times.
They do however earn some huge historically correct points for the shooter. Take Care Fairshake

[Pappy Myles]

Well I have to report on my learning curve experience with venturing into the Dark Arts with MagTech Shells.  A couple of months ago, in preparation of a match I shot last weekend, I decided to shoot in the Frontier Cartridge Category.  As such, I pulled out my MagTech shell s in 12 guage.  I've been studying and practing with these for a while, though I am no expert.  I am learning to become one.....  Anyway, I had loaded before following the classic loading of powder, nitro powder card, 1/2 felt wat, shot and over shot card.  My results in my TTN shotgun were not all that favorable as the felt pad blew thru the center of the shot patern and making it a doughnut.  The only thing hitting the knockdown was the felt wad.  So I went to dropping the felt wad, adding an extra overpowder wad, and using a AA red plastic shot cup.  Worked fine in practice, thought there is a tad bit of snake sking left in the barrel.  So anyway, I'm loading up, and find I have a shortage of overpowder wads to do the double wad thing.  I elect to take some poly fiber batting, cut into 1 1/2 inch squares to use as a filler.  Powder, nitro card, polyfiber wad, AA wad, shot and overshot card, then glued with elmers wood glue.  They set for several weeks in the box, then went to the range.   As I was pulling the shells out of my shotgun belt, the overshot cards came loose and as I was loading, shot was spilling out all over the place.  I'm think what the heck?.    Well, I had another box with no polyfiber and finished the match.     What I suspect, was as the glue was curing, the poly fiber was expanging and never let the overshot card set right.    That night in the hotel, I went thru my box of shells, salvaged what I could, and went to wallmart for some elmers white glue.  I managed to reglue the tops, with shot taken from a box of spare aa shells I take with me, and finish up the match.  A lesson added to my reloading scheme....NEVEN USE POLY FIBER IN YOUR BRASS SHOTSHELLS.