Sighting Question

[The Arapaho Kid]

Ok....I hadda get new glasses this week.  I went out with my Colt Lightning yesterday and launched a few.  With my old glasses both the front and back sights were fuzzy.  Now I get the same thing with my new glasses.  The bullseye is clear, but both sights are fuzzy.  I'm open for suggestions on what to do about this.

[L.G.]

FOCUS!

[Doc Shapiro]

Get a pair of glasses that bring the front sight into focus.  Call the eye doc and tell them what you need.  Ask if you can bring a gun in with out so that they can get the right focal length.

For rifle, you might try an apature sight in back.

Doc

[The Arapaho Kid]

FOCUS!

EXCELLENT IDEA!  YOU FOCUS ON FUZZ AND SEE HOW YOU SHOOT!

[Hemlock Mike]

Maybe you need the bifocular type glasses  -- I do 

Mike

[john boy]

Kid:  My optometrist is a trap shooter.  He worked with me to determine the best bifocal focal plane accordingly:

• Measure from your eye to the front sight of your handgun
• Measure from your eye to the front sight of your rifle/shotgun
• The distance from the front sight of your handgun to the same on your rifle/shotgun is the focal plane distance needed for your glasses
• Then we played with different lens to provide the best clarity within this focal plane range
• Also raised my bifocal up to 10 mm so I don't have to raise me head when sighting
• Don't buy polycarbonate lens ... get glass only for better clarity

[El Deguello]

What John Boy said, Kid. It has to do with depth of field, much like photography.

"When a lens focuses on a subject at a distance, all subjects at that distance are sharply focused. Subjects that are not at the same distance are out of focus and theoretically are not sharp. However, since human eyes cannot distinguish very small degree of unsharpness, some subjects that are in front of and behind the sharply focused subjects can still appear sharp. The zone of acceptable sharpness is referred to as the depth of field. Thus, increasing the depth of field increases the sharpness of an image. We can use smaller apertures for increasing the depth of field. "

Here are a couple of sites on the subject.

http://www.cs.mtu.edu/~shene/DigiCam/User-Guide/950/depth-of-field.html

http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html

At our age cataracts may come into play. I'm at stage 2 in the left eye and stage 3 in the right eye, they will operate at stage 5.  The power in the right eye changes every few months.

I have an inexpensive solution to the problem, if it involves bifocals, that has worked well for me for a number of years.  Let me know if you want the simple system I use that works.  If you use both eyes in Gunfighter it may be a bit more involved because you're probably dealing with two+ add diopter powers, I only use one add for right eye.   

[Doc Shapiro]

Well, you could learn to shoot your rifle with a target focus.  That's what I do out to about 30 yards now, though it took a long time to get comfortable with it.  Focus on the target, you can still make out the sights enough to hit reliably, especially if you're using a brass bead up front.

Doc

[john boy]

For rifles and bad eyes, put a tang sight on it.

Try this: take your glasses off.  Look at an object that is fuzzy with them off.  Now, make a small circle opening with your hands.  Look through it.  The object will be crystal clear.  Don't remember the name for the principle.

Sorry, no tangs on handguns

[Joyce (AnnieLee)]

I also went through what John Boy and E.D. experienced, but in my case it was for contacts. Normally, my left eye would have a 4.25 script written for it, which would bring distant objects into clear focus but leave my sights a blur. For shooting precision, I have contacts with 3.75 for the dominant eye, which brings the front sights of the longarm into sharp focus, but I get some fuzziness on the target. It's a tradeoff. Since I shoot with both eyes open, my right eye lens is still 4.25 which helps with the targets.

Another thing is to use good shooting glasses that have zero distortion in the lens and to keep them clean. A smudge or smear on those can turn both the sights and the targets a tad fuzzy.

AnnieLee

[El Deguello]

All proficient shooting instructors will tell you that with all things being equal, the Holy Grail of  hitting your target involves three things; 1. front sight,  2. front sight and 3.  front sight.
If all else fails, go back to the front sight.
The rear sight and target can be fuzzy, but the front sight needs to be in-focus and on target.

OK already, I hear pards screaming trigger pull, bullet weight, balance, powder, dwell time, etc., etc., etc.  and this is all true. However, with all such elements that make the thing go BANG being equal, it all goes back to the front sight.

The only exception to this rule is the person who can  instinctively point to POI (point of impact) without ever looking at his gun or sights, these lads are few and far between.  It's written that WBH and JWH were two of them.  If you can draw, shoot from the hip and hit the center of a playing card instinctively and consistently, then you to may be a  NATURAL BORN SHOOTER.   For the rest of us lesser mortal, we have and must use the front sight.

Some time back the Israeli had an elite group of a like SWAT who had taken the rear and front sights off their handguns.  This was to reduce drag. They operated at very close range and were trained to shoot center of mass instinctively, the article said training was intense with a high failure rate. 

FOR CAS, if your game is a little off  and you're struggling, go back to the front sight and take a little bit more time in target acquisition.  Most all of this has been covered at one time or another by Jeff Cooper, it's not original copy.

[Derby Younger]

There ya go Kid.........

[Doc Shapiro]

To expand on what El Deguallo said...

To shoot accurately, front sight is very important.  However, to shoot reasonably accurately fast, you have to see fast.  In other words, you need to see what is needed to make the shot.  No more, no less.  At the distances we shoot in CAS and with the target sizes that we use, you don't really need to see much to reliably hit the target.  Generally, all I see is a bit of a blur as the sights and target come together.  I've found that a target focus (eyes focused on the target, sights blurry) works best for this style of competition.  Especially with the rifle.

The last 6 or 8 months I've been working exclusively with target focus.  I use a flat top rear sight and a large bead up front.  By focusing on the target, the sights are still there.  I still use them.  However, they are fuzzy.  But you can still line them up while maintaining target focus. 

IMO, for CAS (not bullseye, nor LR, nor any precision type shooting event) rifle shooting, this works best.  It takes some training and practice to learn.

With the glasses that you have, it might be a good solution.  If you are uncomfortable with it, call your eye doc back and bring a gun in with you so that a pair of glasses with the perfect focal length can be made.

FWIW, I would never shoot most of the Steel Challenge targets with a target focus, and I don't shoot most IPSC targets with a target focus either.  I'm finding that being able to pick and choose where to focus for each shot works really well.  Target focus for big/close, front sight for small/far.

Doc

[El Deguello]

Lost sight of the original question and had to return to FRONT SIGHT.

Those with good baby blues have no problem in acquiring the rear sigh, front sight and target, they are all sharp and crisp and those of us with cheaters envy you because we're a struggling with something they know nothing about - some nonusers ever find it humorous.  Their time will come.

If your correct is only for distance, acquiring  the three necessary elements may not be that hard because you require no near correction.

For most of us who are well over 40 we will need both near and far corrections, bifocals.  The stronger the power the greater the struggle.  With the near correction you can read the news paper but thru the bottom of the lens the rear, front sights and target are all out of focus. 

Thru the top of the lens the target is in focus but not the rear, front sights nor the big print on the newspaper.  The top of the lens  has been adjusted for distance out to near infinity  while the bottom of the lens has been corrected for reading newsprint pout to about 12".  Your gun sights are probably somewhere between 24 and 30".

  The trick now is to get the near focus  set to your  gun sight distance.  In most cases, if the near power is very strong, you will be able to see the sights but not news print, the target will also probably be a tad fuzzy.  The primary function is to get the front sight in focus and to aim for COM (center of mass)  on the SASS legal target.  SASS target are usually always large, up close and personal, hitting it shouldn't be a problem even when fuzzy.  El Deguello has even shot a few clean matches (slowly) using fuzzy logic.

After you have the correct power adjustments made the next problem with bifocals is that dreaded horizontal line.  If it's set too low you'll almost break your neck trying to tilt you head back far enough to see the sights.  Then, when you go to the rifle that line will invariably  cross right between the near & far correction line which, in many cases, leads to double vision, you will see two targets and/or maybe two sights.  Some say, just pick one and live with it.

You can solve most of these problems by working with your  Optometrist; before the exam advise the Dr. of your special requirements and the distance to the front sigh of you revolver when held at discharge distance and distance to front sight of rifle when held in shooting position. 

There are other options, First time users usually adjust well to variable correction lenses, these are the ones with no bifocal line.  Some use trifocal lenses and some use contacts.  IMMHO, when it comes to shooting and correction lenses all systems are a compromise.    

[El Deguello]

What Doc Shapiro posted is true and his system works for him, he's worked hard at it and developed it into a working compromise.  I also have the feeling that he's one of those INSTINCTIVE SHOOTERS who only uses the sights as a guide to the next target.  Many gunfighters probably fall into this class of exceptional shooters who are multi tasked inspired. 

Some of us lack this ability and there's no shame in that, we're just standard issue mortals.   If it were easy we'd all be SASS world champions.   Whatever system you use requires dedication, bad vision is a hindrance that we who have it must learn to live with.  Also, it is written that no two people on this planet have exactly the same eyes or vision problem.

Keep in mind that fuzzy sight/target logic is subjective. i.e., what's fuzzy to one shooter could be dead on sharp to another.

[Doc Shapiro]

Just to throw out this last tidbit...

The technique I posted above is used by many shooters in various action shooting games.  It's not a new technique, nor one that I figured out.  I learned about it in a book called "Practical Shooting, Beyond Fundamentals" by Brian Enos.  It's available on his web site at http://www.brianenos.com.

He discusses what you need to see to make each shot.  For big/close targets, you might be able to do it strictly with body index alone and just be looking over the top of the gun.  The next is the target focus that I listed.  As targets get smaller and farther, focus must shift to the front sight in order to reliably hit. 

So learn to see what you need to see to make the shot.

A tang sight in the back might help out.  So could getting lenses made with a focal length that puts your focus on the front sight.  I'd get some set for the front sight of my pistol and just make do with the rifle. 

Doc

[The Arapaho Kid]

I have been giving this whole thing some thought.  This is what I came up with:  In CAS we seldom shoot at a bullseye target.  We shoot at colored metal plates.  When I shoot at these I put the end of the rifle in center mass of the target, launch a round and get a clang...same with pistols.  Where I'm having this fuzzy sight problem is with bullseye targets where you have to set the bullseye on the front sight, make sure that's centered up in the back sight, take a deep breath, let half of it out and squeeze one off.  In CAS we don't have to do that....at least I don't.  As far as I know...In CAS there's no perfect sight picture needed...unless you are shooting at a clay pigeon hanging on a board and those are few.  So...I think I'll pass on having a special lens made up for my glasses.