Clone "build" types

[Old Doc]

What Old Doc has said is correct and adds to what I posted. Except.........I don't think AWA bought ASM.

You sound far more informed on the subject than myself, however, I do remember reading in a review of one of their guns, the part about then buying ASM. As we all know, just because you read it, don't make it right

Doc

[Hoof Hearted]

Obviously this is a loaded question, uh, so to speak but I know where there's a "new" ASM Bisley 5.5 " barrel in 44-40 for $365.  Am I crazy to even consider it?  Colors are good, bluing looks good, but the grip fit is atrocious.  Gaps everywhere.  It was purchased by a nearby gunshop with a bunch of ASM and Uberti single action partial guns.  Some lacked backstraps, some lacked cylinders, and then again there were cylindered frames that lacked barrels.  For about $300 you might be able to make one out of two, but with New York registration laws, I'm standing off of that I think.  Anyway, the Bisley repo is complete.  Any thoughts?  If it isn't timed well, etc. what would a good tune up be, and how much of a rat hole would I be throwing my money down.  Again, any thoughts would be appreciated.  I'd like a 44-40 to go with my '73.
Jamie

Jamie

I see a fair number of pistols for repair and of the ASM's MOST of the SAA Clones work pretty well with very few problems (most of the issues were in the "conversions" of the 1851 and 1861). Realize that there are always exceptions and that the pistols you are referring to may have been "left overs" or "problem childs" but if you carefully check it out and all seems OK you are probably fine. Internal parts are not too difficult as Eddie Janis' parts for the 1st and 2nd gen will work.

HH

[Old Doc]

You sound far more informed on the subject than myself, however, I do remember reading in a review of one of their guns, the part about then buying ASM. As we all know, just because you read it, don't make it right

Doc

Quote: "Back in the latter 1990's, C.O.W.S. (Classic Old West Styles), makers of authentic Old West clothing and gun leather, headquartered in El Paso, Tx, decided to branch out into the replica gun market; hence was born American Western Arms. Not entirely satisfied with what was being produced in Italy, AWA acquired the Italian gun manufacturing firm of Armi San Marco for its own, so quality and ultimate design could be absolutely controlled. "
Guns of The Old West-Summer 2001, page 77.

I didn't say it was true. Just said I read it somewhere. So how come I can't remember what I had for breakfast. Wife says she's going to get me on one of those "hoarders" shows.
Doc

[Hoof Hearted]

Well there ya go

Although still not so sure what acquired meant. I bet Boyd at EMF could provide some insight here.
Might just mean that they signed some sort of exclusive contract.

Based on the "Chaparral" venture and how it was vehemetly denied that ASM was the manufacturer of the parts by some and "behind closed doors" it was said that it was the "son" of ASM's owner by others and all the rest of the issues, we may never know the truth.

But with all that said I think it is safe to say that ASM and AWA are both ASM built just differing levels of quality!

Regards, HH

[sail32]

You listed Pietta and Great Western as separate clones. My Pietta is stamped "GREAT WESTERN II ", on the top of the barrel.

[Hoof Hearted]

I suppose we should explain these things as they come up

The Great Western was an early version marketed by EMF. When they stopped selling ASM pistols and went to Pietta manufactured ones. Boyd had Pietta roll mark his model as the "Great Western II" (I suppose as a tribute to the first SAA clone he sold).

HH

You listed Pietta and Great Western as separate clones. My Pietta is stamped "GREAT WESTERN II ", on the top of the barrel.

[Abilene]

Hoof,
I'm a little confused.  Is there more than one Walt at EMF?  The owner is Boyd (U.S. Grant) and the Walt at EMF I know about used to be with TTN until Cimarron took them over.  Was he at EMF before TTN?  Thanks.

And to Old Doc, I certainly don't know for sure about COWS and ASM, but I know that GOTW has made many a glaring error over the years 

[Hoof Hearted]

Old age wins again!

I was doing a lot of talking with Walt (the one you are referring to) about the Pepperbox conversion lately and know better but used Walt in place of Boyd
Walt was at the "Blank Guns" part of EMF and joined EMF after they split the blank guns portion off.

I have fixed my posts above.

HH

[Abilene]

I know what you mean about old age.  Ar at least I, uh... what were we talking about?   

[Texas John Ringo]

The Real Great Western SA
http://www.gundigest.com/gun-collecting-firearm-collecting/the-first-colt-clone

[Jamie]

Thanks for the input.  I might just have to pick it up.  If I do, I'll let you know how it comes out.  Again, thanks for responding on the Bisley question!
Jamie

[Coffinmaker]

Adding a bit of information, I have been able to rebuild the lock works of several ASM SA clones using Pietta parts.  Some fitting required.  I still haven't found parts for the ASM 1851/1861 Conversions.  By the way, anybody have a pair of barrel assemblies for ASM, .38 Cal, 7 1/2 inch barrel??? Ime rebuilding two more ASM conversions.

Coffinmaker

[Silent Joe]

Beside my Colt SAA .45 I have a Western Marshal 38/357 from J.P.Sauer. It is a great gun. See pics.

[Hoof Hearted]

Adding a bit of information, I have been able to rebuild the lock works of several ASM SA clones using Pietta parts.  Some fitting required.  I still haven't found parts for the ASM 1851/1861 Conversions.  By the way, anybody have a pair of barrel assemblies for ASM, .38 Cal, 7 1/2 inch barrel??? Ime rebuilding two more ASM conversions.

Coffinmaker

Yea......good luck

I too use parts (frequently) from the other Italian makers to repair the ASM's. But it is a challenge and a bit of a compromise most of the time!

HH

[Coffinmaker]

Based on recent information, we can add USFA to the list of "use to be."   Another one bites the dust.

Coffinmaker

[Major 2]

Would you concider adding "Colt" themselves to the clone list ?

The short lived Colt "Cowboy" was made under licence to Colt,  in Germany

[sack peterson]

I think that is a legit distinction and example.  I see it as any frame cast or forged as a reproduction of the original SAA.

Where those really made overseas?  No wonder they were such a flop.

[Fox Creek Kid]

The Colt Cowboy frame was made in Czechoslovakia.

[old tired eyes]

I failed to notice KBI. I have a pair of Liberty II's in 44-40.

[sack peterson]

KBI Liberty was built by Armi San Marco and then Pietta.