Frame on 1872 open tops is cupped around the fining pin hole and causing issues.

[G.W. Strong]

I'm not sure if this issue is unique to me or it has been discussed previously. I tried to search for it but came up short.

The frame on both of my old Uberti 1872 open tops is cupped inward around the fining pin hole. This allows the primers to swell to fit the cup and make the cylinder darned hard to advance. I originally thought it was a fouling/cleaning issue but upon closer examination I can see the area around the hole is slightly cupped. I shoot full cases of black in 44spl and this is becoming an issue.

Does anyone have a fix for this? 

Has anyone else encountered the problem?

[buckskin billy]

yup, i had that same problem with one of mine. all the problems you described happened to me. my gun started doing that after about 30 rounds. 3 stages at a cowboy shoot.
i ordered  my gun from cimarron. i had to send it back at my own exspense and they had there gunsmith drill it out and put a steel insert in it. it seems to had fixed the problem.
i would find a trust worthy gun smith that specializes in that. as my gun was covered in rust when i got it back. not trying to bash any one just giving a friendly warning.
but the problem is cureable.

good luck

[Pettifogger]

Common problem.  My pair have the same problem.  Only solution if yours is out of warranty is to either machine the frame for a firing pin bushing or to weld up the frame and re-drill the hole.

[Pony Racer]

My gunsmith has fixed my antiqued 1872 44's with the welding solution that Pettifogger discusses.

Interestingly enough my 38's never have had this issue.

I have another pair of 1872 44's that was left blue/cch - and it looks like i will need to get them the treatment that the antiqued ones got.

V/r

PR

[Grapeshot]

I wonder if I'm going to have that problem with my .45 Opentop.

[G.W. Strong]

I shot a match with them today. That worked perfectly I kept the wedge a bit loose.

[Texas Lawdog]

i HAVE A CHANCE TO PURCHASE AN OPENTOP IN 45 COLT THAT IS IN A LOCAL GUN SHOP. AFTER READING THE POSTS, I AM HAVING SECOND THOUGHTS ABOUT POTIENTAL PROBLEMS WITH IT AFTER PURCHASE.

[G.W. Strong]

Texas Lawdog,
Don't be scared off. If I had the chance to purchase another I would. I love these guns. Part of the problem may be my load. I am shooting full cases (over 30 grains) of black powder with no fillers. As I stated above, my match yesterday went flawlessly. Everything ran like a top. I shot clean with my pistols but had one miss (on a large, easy target) with my rifle.

[buckskin billy]

i HAVE A CHANCE TO PURCHASE AN OPENTOP IN 45 COLT THAT IS IN A LOCAL GUN SHOP. AFTER READING THE POSTS, I AM HAVING SECOND THOUGHTS ABOUT POTIENTAL PROBLEMS WITH IT AFTER PURCHASE.

i bought both of my open tops years ago after they first came out. a good friend of mine bought a pair from taylors about two years ago and he aint done nothing but shot them and cleaned them, with full black powder loads and he aint had nary a problem out of them. there are quiet a few shooters here that own them and love them, i don't believe that many shooters would own them if'n they were junk. i just had the luck of the draw and got the lemon out of the bunch

[rifle]

I' d wonder if the head space was a little wide on those Open Tops or conversions that imprint the primer back into the recoil shield around the firing pin hole. Might be more than just mild steel.
I think a good fix is the firing pin bushing press fit in. The "PeaceMaker Specialist" sells them.
I've noticed that on some..... the milling on the hammer side of the firing pin hole is milled out too flat(too thin) where others are slanted at the top of the hole (since the hammer moves on an arc)which keeps more steel thicker close to the hole.
It's like a quality control problem with the milling of the hammer side of the hole.
If you knopw what I mean then it's seen easily and can be inspected before purchase. Pick a good one when possible to inspect before buying. Pick one where the steel is thicker close to the top of the hole on the hammer side.
Acually when the dents from the primers are welded back in and refaced the rear of the hole should also be welded in at the top of the hole to thicken the steel there. The milling for the arc of the hammer/firing pin has to be made proper.
The firing pin hole bushing is good since it spreads the force out into a wider area and the bushing is hardened. The guns should come from the factory with the proper milled arc for the firing pin and...have the firing pin bushing already installed.....if they want to use such mild steel.
I'd like to install the floating firing pin of the R. Mason conversion into the Open Tops.
Firing with a primer set too deep has been know to set back under pressure and eventually dent the area around the firing pin hole. Some remedy this with a primer that fits the brass case or with a piece of paper under the primer.  The paper is set under the case and the primer installed cuts the paper to perfectly fit into the primer hole of the case. The paper acts like a shim to raise the height of the primer in the hole. The paper has to be able too let the flash pop thru to  ignite the powder.
According to a loading manual I have the use of FFFg powder can,in some cartridges, greatly raise the pressures. Sometimes by 50%. I recommend the use of FFg powder in cartridges.

[Texas Lawdog]

I recently purchased a 4.75 in. opentop in 44 Russian which I haven't shot yet, because I don't have any ammo to fit it. I need to find a holster to fit it. The opentop that I found in Fort Worth is brand new with a 7.5 barrel in 45 Colt. If I buy it, I need to come up with holsters for it and my 44 Russian. I've also bought a Navy Arms Scofield in 44/40 with a 3.5 barrel that I need a holster as well. Too many guns and no holsters to fit them.

[rifle]

Law Dog, sometimes the guns can chamber a longer case than specified. Like a 45 Scholfield may chamber a 45 Colt,or a 44 Russian chamber a 44 Colt case or a 38 Colt chamber a 38  Special.
I have an Open Top cylinder stamped 45 Scholfield and I shoot 45 Colt in it. Also a 44 Colt cylinder that I shoot 44 Specials in it.
I shoot mostly black powder but some smokeless too. I stay in the right pressure range for what the gun is stamped for.

[Raven]

Today there are not reamers for many of the Old calibers......45 Schofield etc.
And there used to be Loopholes in the regulations concerning Obsolete calibers
So The factories ....ourselves included would call a .45 chambering a .45 Schofield even though the only chambering reamers available are .45 Colt. This is why .45 Colt fits in .45 Schofield and .38 special fits in .38 Colt etc.
These days there are no obsolete cartridges except for some rimfire and pin fire so those loopholes are only for those cartridges
You can have special reamers made by Manson and Clymer made to the specs of older calibers, but it is expensive, and they are so busy they don't want to do it. Most manufacturers are not using reamers they are extropolating the chamber on CNC machines and it is cheaper and easier to chamber for a one size fits most than to have to stock a dozen different calibers.

Raven

[rifle]

Howdy Raven. You da man,you da man. You know ll that good stuff. You must be a gunsmith. No wait....you are a gunsmith. Really liked that LeMat carbine on the front of "Guns of the Old West", magazine. Soon as I saw that I knew you did it.
I didn't know the "obsolete" cardridges can't obtain reamers for. That doesn't sound right does it? Well you know what I mean.
It'sfunny how a person can buy a 44 Colt Italian gun and chamber 44 Special in it or just buy thye same type gun chambered for 44 Special. Same goes fer 45 Scholfield and 45 Colt.
What you say about reamers sounds logical.
How would you explain my RM Conversion revolver by Uberti that is 45 Scholfied and 45 Colt doesn't chamber?  I figured they (Uberti) made it that way by quality control blooper or wanted it that way for some reason. Maybe 45 Colt would be too long for the cylinder? I'm pretty sure I have an Open Top that is 45 Scolfield and fires 45 Colt. Longer cylinder in the Open Tops.
Actually I know it's something like that but I fer-get since I can't keep track of all them any more. You know...which Open Tops fire longer cartridges and which RM Conversions do the same. I'd have to get them out of hiding and unpack them from thier plastic bags sealed with that Rust-Blox paper in the bag.
Anywhoooooo........do the Italians actually use reamers or use drills or end mills to chamber the cylinders....on the CNC machines? I have a San Marcos in 44 Colt that doesn't chamber the 44 Special. Oh well.

[G.W. Strong]

Just an update. I ligtly hammered out the dimple from the back side and I have been shooting full cases of black since. I have no problems at all!

[Mike]

I bought a Uberti Richards in 44 Colt after two years wait shot 20 rounds and I have had to dress the firing pin hole. When will they get it sorted.
I am looking at a Richards Mason Sunday and it is an area I will be looking at.

Uberti has to sort these issues.

[rifle]

Hopalong, never thought to do that to one before. Hope it works out well for ya. Going to shoot exclusively black in the gun?
There is a problem with these guns and the firing pin holes and the firing pins and the conversion backplates.
The hammers pin moves on an arc and that calls for a slanted firing pin hole. You'd think the manufacturers would adapt to that and the fact soft steel isn't the best for a backplate or frame(in the case of the 1871 Open Tops).
People keep buyin them since the Italians have a monopoky on those certain type guns. No competition.
I am tired of soft cylinders too on the cap&ballers. I get tired of defective parts too.
I guess it all makes the customer service at places like Ruger all the more attractive and satisfying.
Too bad there isn't a "Made in the USA" company making replicas of the old guns.
The price of the overseas guns is going up all the time. It was the Euro ya know? Oh wait.....the Euro is like really de-valued. The price keeps going up though and never much down.
After I work messin with the Italian guns it's always a pleasure to go shoot my Ruger Vaqueros.
I love my cap&ballers and Open Tops and Richards Masons don't get me wrong......but never had a barrel crack or a spring break on a Ruger Vaquero.
Of course makin replicas of the old obsolete guns means makin them the way they were back in the day and that's an impediment to first rate durability right there. Usin steel that's too soft isn't authentic though. The old guns backin the day had hard steel or iron parts.
You gotta love the overseas makers for makin the guns they do make since no one else is makin them much. The quality could be better considering the price of the guns anymore. Of course the American businessman and investors do like their profits. That doesn't help the economy any. When I get voted in for President someday I'll fix all these problems for the CowBoy Shooters. I'd have to buy a suit though since denim farmer cover-alls don't have the presidential look to them.

[G.W. Strong]

Hopalong, never thought to do that to one before. Hope it works out well for ya. Going to shoot exclusively black in the gun?

These guns are 100% dedicated to genuine black. I have shot these more than my Rugers this season. They are my favorite pistols. I have 5 1/2" and 7 1/2" barrels for them but I alwas use the long ones. They look too good with the long barrels to use the shortys. If I was more of a gamer the short barrels might be better but it is all about the look of the guns and the boom and smoke of the powder. There is nothing like it.

I hammered them out in late June and have shot several matches with them since. They have run like a top. No hitches or issues at all.

[rifle]

Hopalong, you're right about then "black". There's nothin like it. The real deal.
Do you run those "Big Lube Bullets" thru em? Use Pearl Lube and the whole caboodle? Cast bullets and all? Use the "pure soft lead"?
I've had people say that the guns are made as they were "back in the day" so they are meant to be shot that way with "black" and lower smokeless pressures equivelent to black.
I say they are meant to be shot with smokeless as they are warranted for what factory ammo cartridge they are stamped for. That means smokeless I guess.
I'm just sayin they are sold as smokeless cartridge guns and black powder loads too with the black the most authentic way to shoot them. Let me see......I thunk I'm saying the guns aren't "black powder only" as they come from then factory like cap&ballers.
I had people recommend the guns be shot as they were "backin the day" with black and pure lead only when I was complaining about getting "cracked at the forcing cone bottoms" in the 44's and the 45's.
It turned out the replacement barrels were left milled thicker at the nbottom of the forcing cones like there was a short run of a quality control inspection problem with some and I ended up with three of them. Two 45's and a 44 cal.
I never went high in the pressures with the guns and never had a double charge of smokeless powder or anything lke that.
I did use hard cast lead bullets in them though. Of course the factory ammo has loaded in the carts the hardcast bullets and that means the guns are warranted for that.
Anywhooooo.....Now I use only pure lead bullets and keep the pressures down as I always did in the pressure department.
I waited too long to get replacement barrels for the guns I had the barrels crack at the forcing cone. I do have a 38 Open Top that I'm fond of.I like the 44's the best since that was the authentic round in the Open Tops but.....that 38 I have is a real sweet gun. Shoots accurate and never fails me with black or smokeless powder. Fouls easier after a bunch of loads of black but that's no problem since the barrel stays pretty clean.
I think the 38 will out last the 44's and the 45's. I'd have a Richards Mason 38 ifin the 38's RM had the rebated cylinder the the larger size conversion plate and cylinder diameter. When I look at the 38 RM's right off the bat there is something wrong. The rebate isn't there. They still are nice lookin guns but...without the rebate there's something missing. Why Uberti designed a smaller backplate and a non-rebate cylinder instead of making the 38's with the same cylinder and frame as the 44's and 45's I couldn't say.

[Abilene]

...I'd have a Richards Mason 38 ifin the 38's RM had the rebated cylinder the the larger size conversion plate and cylinder diameter. When I look at the 38 RM's right off the bat there is something wrong. The rebate isn't there. They still are nice lookin guns but...without the rebate there's something missing. Why Uberti designed a smaller backplate and a non-rebate cylinder instead of making the 38's with the same cylinder and frame as the 44's and 45's I couldn't say.

Rifle, if you are talking about the 1851 RM .38 with octagonal barrel, the originals did not have a rebated cylinder, so they are pretty accurate reproductions (although I think on originals the conversion ring extended past the recoil shield).  If you are talking about the "1860 RM" in .38, well that is a copy of something that never existed, and is simply an 1851 RM frame and cylinder with an 1860 grip and barrel.