Californio Spurs Needed

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Hello,

I need to have some spurs made for a very special situation ... you see, I volunteer as a Californio in Old Sacramento, and since there were not many Californio city dwellers in Northern CA, I would probably have ridden in from my Ranchero and still have my spurs on ...

The problem? Californios did not use normal Cowboy Boots; they wore brogans/chukka boot-liike over-the ankle things that would lace up ... and they did not wear riding heels but normal walking heels ... So I have bought a pair of Justin Work boots (i.e. Ropers)to wear with my Californio Gear.

I would need someone who would be interested in making some Huge roweled (2 & 1/2-3" diameter) spurs, but with an angle that would keep it from dragging on the ground if used with a 1" heel ....




If anyone knows a spurmaker who might be intrigued by this project, please let me know his name/webite/ph# or whatever ....

Thanks and TTFN,

[Don Nix]

Check with Eduardo Garcia in Can Ysidro California,if he is still alive he can probably fix you up.

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Check with Eduardo Garcia in Can Ysidro California,if he is still alive he can probably fix you up.

Thank you Don,

You are right; I think he could have made exactly what I was looking for .... but he seems to be no longer with us ...

TTFN,

[Durango Flinthart]

WWE,

Do a random search of "Chihuahua Spurs" they have strait shanks and large rowels. These are a staple of designers who specialize in Western Decor. The Quality will run from museum to rusty lumps. Good hunting

Watch your topknot,

Durango

[Tsalagidave]

Hi Wad,

I got your message via personal email but am having problems with accessing my PM on this site.  Yes, I know just the guy. His name is Andreas Rombach  and he lives outside of Munich Germany.  This guy not only has a passion for the American West, he meticulously studies each piece in either his incredible collection or in museums down to the last detail. His knives and leatherwork are  first rate and he makes the best repro spurs that I have ever seen. I place him in the top of the top percentile and he is a hell of a nice guy too. I believe that he is creating an english-speaking website let me dig and I'll get you his contact information.

-Dave

[James Hunt]

If Dave's contact can't you might check out Joe DeLaronde - in Colorado I think. He used to make some outstanding Spanish colonial spurs and may be induced to do so again.

He can be contacted at: http://www.delarondeforge.com/

PS: this type of top quality stuff is never cheap, bring your AmEx card

[Tascosa Joe]

WWE:
I 2nd the motion for DeLaRonde, but I was talking to him 10 or 12 years ago about copying a single I have and he was over $300 then.  He makes the best tomahawks in the business as well.
T-Joe

[WaddWatsonEllis]

James Hunt/Tascosa Joe,

The problem is not the cost (although I would like to have them cheaper rather than more expensive). The real problem is finding anyone who would like to take on the challenge. I have sent off an email with pics to the address listed on his website .... we shall see ....

TTFN and Thanks

Picture of antique California/Sonoran Spurs



Pics of Californios:





My Boots:

[ChuckBurrows]

There are a bunch of fine spurmakers out there who make Spanish Colonial style spurs (Larry Fuegen, Mark Dahl, John C Ennis - see a pair of his here http://www.nationalcowboymuseum.org/events/tcaa/catalog/pages/ennis111_jpg.htm price is $39,000.00 so you better have one heck of an Amex Limit LOL!) but for this project I'd agree with James Hunt and Tascosa Joe and give Joe Delaronde a call - he lives just over the hill from me in Mancos.....
http://www.delarondeforge.com/

BTW - do a web search for Spanish Colonial Spurs and you'll find a number of sites with originals posted and for sale.

here's a couple of other pics -




Also check out the Spanish Californio spurs in "Cowboys and The Trappings of the Old West"

[Major 2]

Wadd

it may be a bit late on your boot purchase....

Here is the Montcello Boot , Fugawee Boot Co. of Tallahssee Fla.  ....http://www.fugawee.com/   and
http://www.ushist.com/victorian_mens_boots_shoes_f.shtml


The Monticello is appropriate for CW & Seminole Wars and as a work shoe from the early 1800's until the present day, is built on the same lasts as the Federal Contract Bootee. It has five lace holes and a pull tab on the back of the boot. It's color is russet or natural and the rough-out leather takes on a beautiful color when given a coat of Lexol or other oil
".... Shoes like these were packed 100 pairs to the barrel and shipped from Boston to St Louis and on to Taos, to the Western frontier and any seaport that the Stars and Stripes traded with. This type of shoe was worn by the Yankee seamen who, in the 1820s rounded Cape Horn to load cattle hides in the tiny Spanish port of Los Angeles de California. They took the hides back to Boston, where they were made into shoes and harness.
There was a boot manufacter near Montcello, Fl. ( near Tallahassee) though no trace remains save a Bronze historical marker on the road side.

another by Robert Land......http://www.ushist.com/victorian_mens_boots_shoes_f.shtml

Gentleman's Congress Shoe -  Type 1,  This style of congress shoe is a perfect reproduction of an orginal in the maker's friends collection. These shoes are made on original shoe lasts (these are the molds that the shoes are made on) that were produced during the 1850's and 60's.

still another you might want to check out...
http://www.fugawee.com/hilow.htm

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Major 2,

It is too late ... the boots are here and waiting for spurs  ....  but I was looking for non-roughout boots, and it seems that most of these are rough-outs ... but your design is closer to what I was looking for ... now ifI could find some spurs with large aggressive rowels and a flat or reverse camber neck of shank that would allow walking with those big rowels and a 1 inch normal heel on the boot ....

[Sacramento Johnson]

Howdy WaddWatson,
I did the same thing you're doing about 15 years back.  I wanted a set of Californio style spurs (narrow heel band, blued steel two piece shank and band construction, buttons on the heel band (not swingers), heel chains), but with a shank I could walk in.  I had a guy named Brian Brauer (or Brawer, can't recall exactly), make me a set with a reverse gal's leg shank (it tilted up).  This allowed for a nice large bronze rowel that didn't drag the ground.
Nowadays, if I was looking for something similar, I'd contact Lindholm brothers and see if there was something on their web they made that would work (http://www.lindholmspurs.com/).  Alot of their stuff is Buermann or North and Judd styles (who bought out Buermann in the early 20th century) , pre-1900, and decendants of Californio style (as opposed to Texas or Northern Plains). They make them out of a bronze alloy material, not period correct for your era, (but then your boots aren't exactly, either!)  They might also be able to customize a set for you as well.  Good luck in your search!
PS: remember, if you go without swingers (a later era addition), the spur will tilt down on your heel more (no swinger to act as a cantilever), so you'll need a higher upshank than if the spur held level on your foot. If you have any further questions, please feel free to PM me!

[ChuckBurrows]

Major 2,

,,,,,and a flat or reverse camber neck of shank ....

With all due respect while there are some period images of raised shank spurs being used by Californios/Texans, generlaly speaking the drop shank of varying degress is one of the main distinguishing characteristics of Californio style spurs - the stubby, straight shank Chihuahua spurs for instance were seldom (if ever) seen in early California since they are a northern Mexico style and IIRc quite late 19th Century.  
Roweled spurs were not originally meant to be worn while walking - they were designed for riding and if you're not used to them than walking can literally become a real pain - I've seen lots of falls, some serious, due to folks not understanding how to walk in spurs, especially those with big rowels.....Small or no rowels on spurs existed in part due to those having to fight on foot such as dragoons (although such rowel less spurs date much farther back)....
On the other hand early Spanish SW literature often mentions walking in their large roweled spurs even when wearing moccasins (not uncommon amongst the poorer classes in places like New Mexico) and the rowels (some up to 5" diameter) dragged on the ground when walking.

...PS: remember, if you go without swingers (a later era addition), ...

with respect swingers are not a later era addition at least in so far as Colonial Spanish styles - look at the spurs I posted above - all early (late 1700's - early 1800's) era Spanish Colonial spurs.
And here's a link to more early Spanish spurs - some with some without swingers others with...
http://www.gnwtc.com/colonialroom2.htm

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Sacramento,

The boots are not exactly what a Californio would have worn The Californios preferred a slightly turned up squarish toe... according to what I have read, they wore whatever was shipped into them ... there were no boot makers here at the time ... so a pair of brogans would be very appropriate if they were non rough-out ....

But accounts had the boots as being low-heeled 'brogans' with a slight turned up toe>

I did try the Lynholm Brothers ... in fact I bought the J-Blank Y HB s from them ... when I sent my boots back to them to get the spurs right, they kindly gave me a check for the spurs and sent the boots back to me

I have tried to call them to trade the check for the original spurs (I have other personas/outfits who would use them).

And swingers,,,, I hate to show my ignorance, but is that something like a Jingle Bob?

They do not seem to answer or return my calls ... and it is entirely possible that they are out on a long weekend of shooting ...

[Sacramento Johnson]

Howdy!
Sorry for your difficulties with Lindholm.  Hope you get that straightened out.  As for swingers, I'm referring to the part the button is attached to.  The button (what the spur strap goes over), can either be on the heel band itself, or on a little piece of metal on the end of the heel band, which swings back and forth.  In the picture above of Spanish colonial spurs, several of them show swingers (I didn't notice till Chuck pointed it out).  (They were a later addition for American cowboy spurs.)
I went looking on the web; perhaps some of these might work; check out the men's Jeremiah Watt Old Time models.  They're modern but have a Californio flare.  I'd call them 'semi-custom' and quite a good deal price-wise.
http://www.ranch2arena.com/oldtimespurspg1.html
They will put a 'rise' shank on any spur; this may be just what you're looking for.

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Sacramento,

99% of the people who see me, Hispanics included, say something to the effect of 'look at the cowboy!'. So it will be the 1% that I am being so persnickety about (and me) ... but it is still worth it...

But the email has been sent to Mr Watt ... I didn't think that this would be this hard!

[Sacramento Johnson]

Howdy WaddWatson,
I understand; I've been shooting SASS for 15 years +, often with period correct (as close as I can get them!) outfits, and I KNOW the vast majority of my fellow shooters have no idea how accurate my outfits are, or how much time, money and effort went into putting them together.

As for Californio type spurs, you have looked at the Garcia offerings, yes?
http://capriolas.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=39&sort=2a&page=1
My guy uses E. Garcia ones as well, and has some fairly straight shanked ones that work on his low heeled ropers.

Another possibility are the Californio offerings by Vogt.  These are very  good quality; I have a pair of 893s with the other side being 889B (with the addition of sliver overlay on the raised design) that have worked well when actually riding.
http://lesvogtscalclassics.com/SpurGallery.html
Click on 'classic' and look at 574, 854, 858 and especially 860, 861 and 862.  

Most of the above have only a slightly down turned shank that you might be able to get away with on those low heeled Justin work boots.  (In fact, the 574 looks pretty straight shanked to me, and with the buttons being on swingers, they can probably be kept off the floor!).

There's another important side to the spur equation, and that's the straps.  I prefer very wide visalia pull though ones made by JM Capriola, (with solid silver buckles and conchos that I find and supply to them).  They are two layers thick (smooth-lined), and no rough metal touches the top of my boots (important if you don't want to rub holes in your boots!). They'll make a size called  "Buckaroos", which I believe is even bigger than the men's listed (call them).  The wide strap helps keep the spur in place on my boot, and the wide surface distributes the weight of the spur over a larger area, making them more comfortable ( at least to me!) to wear.
I'm not a big fan of chains, but have used leather under heel straps for some of my Californio style spurs, as they tend to be lighter weight than the Texas or Northern Plains styles, and can bounce a bit more on the boot when riding or walking. (I don't like my spurs real snug on my boots; bothers my feet after awhile.)

Hope all this helps!

[ChuckBurrows]

FWIW - The Watt spurs are very nice (I used to carry them in fact), but are a late period style not the earlier style Wadd should be looking for..

As for heel chains - they originally were not used as hold downs, but rather were worn fairly loose and were added more for the "sound" (along with dangles aka jingle bobs and rein chains) that the Californio caballeros loved so much.

And yep unless you're riding broncs or bulls, overly tight spurs can become VERY uncomfortable....

and Wadd here's a list of custom spur makers with some interesting info as well:
http://www.igbsm.org/2010-Feature-Members.html

also here's a yahoo group which is centered on your Californio interests and may be of help in your quest:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Soldados/message/3623

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Thank you Chuck and Sacramento for keeping me honest in a subject I know very little about ...

I have been making my own buckle-less spur straps from Will Ghormley's pattern, and since he has a 'Vaquero' pattern I was thinking of using them ... here is a pic with his 'baquero' pattern ... I have learned to make them faiirly tight so that as they loosen up the spurs do not have enough slp to fall off the back of the boot heel ...

[WaddWatsonEllis]

The neat thing abut his buckle-less spur straps is that the wide band on them covers up 'key holes' and makes the boots look like one piece fronts ....