Sewing Machine Questions

[Bugscuffle]

I have no experience with sewing machines, but i want to be able to sew two pieces of 6-7 oz. together. I will be using this for my own personal projects. I don't want to "go into the business". My hand stitching is getting better, but i realllike machine stitched for things like belts and of course garments. My questoions are:
1. Will a treadle and/or hand crank machine sew this for me?
2. Is the thread size that you can use a function of the needle or the machine or both?
3. Is there a real need for anything other than a straight stitch machine if I will be using it for CAS accessories, an occasional pair of moccasins, a purse or two and other such items?

[TN Mongo]

I started with a Tippman Boss ($1200 when I bought it).  It did not work well for me.  I now use a Cobra 4; a power machine.  If I had it to over again, I would have saved my money for the power machine, even for my own use.

[outrider]

what machine are you interested in using....some are suffecient and some are not...can you give us a model number and type of machine

In addition...a straight stitch is fine...but again without knowing the machine model...the question cannot be answered and is too general

[Bugscuffle]

I don't really have a machine or model in mind. I have more of a price limitation. I live on a Social Security check that isn't enough to brag about and just don't have $800 and up to buy a sewing machine. I have seen hand crank and treadle machine advertised for much less and want to know are these machine strong enough to reliably sew together two 6-7 oz. layers of leather? If they can, will they be able to do this next week too? How much can I afford? nothing really, but I believe that i could save up about $400 if I count my pennies. It would take several months, but time is the only thing that I have plenty of.

[Slamfire]

Howdy, Bug, what you said about " doing my own projects" that ain't,,,,, goin ta happen, i mean you do have a friend ,,or 2??  If you get a stitcher they will be willing to let you get better ,,,on some of their projects,,(lol),boys tell me if i'm all wet.    The boss stitcher is a little pricy, but it can do some beautiful work . Find a boot repair shop closeing out or saddle shop ck. it out.






    Hootmix

[outrider]

mix,

We all of course have are opinions...in my opinion the Boss stitcher is not only pricy but is very difficult to keep adjusted..I had one for awhile...dumped it...and got a good machine.  To me the Boss is nothing more than a boat anchor..or as Tn Mongo would say it's a $1,200.00 hole puncher

[Ned Buckshot]

I also hated my Boss, had it for 2 days before selling the worthless thing!

[davemyrick]

If you want to sew garments, the thickness of the leather could possibly allow use of a regular home type sewing machine, provided it is a heavy duty machine with proper needles. You would not to do anything other than a straight stitch.

6-7 ounce leather is too think to stitch on any machine except for a dedicated leather stitching machine, such as a Tippman or an Adler.

FWIW, I would not spend the $$$$$$$$ on a dedicated machine, rather work on perfecting my hand stitching. The proper tools and materials are essential for achieving consistent professional looking results. I hand stitch everything I make, and use 18/3 linen thread, 00 size James needles, a Dixon pricking iron and a proper stitching horse make all the difference.

Dave

[ChurchandSon]

Zack White always has some trade ins if the budget doesn't allow new...
Don't know anything about the machines...but they are my neighbors......Randy

http://zackwhite.com/

[Bugscuffle]

Well thanks all y'all.That's pretty much what i was afraid of. It's either $1,500 or hand stitch it I guess. I don't have and never will have $1,500, so I'll just keep trying with the hand stitching. My technique right now is score the line with a groover, mark the stitches with a stitching wheel, start the stitching holes with an awl and finally punch the holes with a pliars type hole punch. Sometimes the pliars type hole punch wont reach to the hole mark, so I just use the awl for those holes, but the hole punch is a lot easiier for me to get the holes straight and uniform. But, doggone it takes a long time to stitch up even a short line. If I'm doing something wrong there, please let me know. I do have a stitching pony, but I'm going to have to modify it slightly to get the jaws to hold the leather piece more firmly.I'll probably start by lining the inside of the jaws with leather, flesh side out. I think that this will increase th friction enough to let me sew without the leather doing the twist as I sew.

[Bugscuffle]

Howdy, Bug, what you said about " doing my own projects" that ain't,,,,, goin ta happen, i mean you do have a friend ,,or 2??  If you get a stitcher they will be willing to let you get better ,,,on some of their projects,,(lol),boys tell me if i'm all wet.    The boss stitcher is a little pricy, but it can do some beautiful work . Find a boot repair shop closeing out or saddle shop ck. it out.

You must not have been paying attention to some of the other forums on this site. I don't have many friends. I'm the Lone Liberal and have been branded as a socialist, a bleeding heart and worst of all a Democrat. So, no I don't have anyone else to make anything for.






    Hootmix

[davemyrick]

Bug,
Try this method, it works for me:
Using a wing divider, lightly scribe a line about 1/8" from the edge of the leather. Now I dont use a wheel, I use a pricking iron however following the scribed line mark your hole locations. The iron marks not only hole placement, but also the proper angle for the awl blade with respect to the edge of the leather. Using a small diamond shaped awl, pierce the leather from the grain side to the flesh side on both edges. I also place a piece of firm rubber foam under the leather while I am using the awl. Get some barge cement and after aligning the holes (use a couple of needles), glue the edges together. Chuck the piece up in your horse and after waxing and threading your two needles, begin stitching away from you from right to the left, with the "front" of your work to your right. ALWAYS stitch from the right to the left. Pass the right needle through the hole and before pulling it tight, pass the left needle through the hole. This allows you to make sure that you didnt pierce the thread with the opposite needle. Then pull both threads tight at the same time and and keep stitch tension the same. It does take some time and practice but before long you will have straight even stitches.

Dave

[TexasToby]

When sewing pretty thick leather I have used an electric drill with about a 1/16" bit. Sometimes a smaller bit. I have seen on here where some other leather craftsmen have done the same thing.

[Bugscuffle]

When sewing pretty thick leather I have used an electric drill with about a 1/16" bit. Sometimes a smaller bit. I have seen on here where some other leather craftsmen have done the same thing.

Texas Toby - I use that tecnique for sewing holsters. I can say holsters, plural, because I've made two of them now. I place about 3/8" of leather spacer between the two pieces of leather. The spacer conforms to the contour of the pistol inside the holster and to the shape of the holster on the back edge of the holster. I get good results with my drill press and a very small drill bit in making the holes uniform, straight and plum, but the bits sure break easily drilling that leather.

davemyrick - The groover does about the same thing for me as the divider does for you. It clearly marks the line that I want to stitch, and in addition it drops the stitches below the level of the leather surface which protects the stitching from wear. I prefer to mark my stitching line a little bit further in, a little over 1/4" or so from the edge and then use a Tandy Safety Beveler to shave down the edge to just over 1/8" from the stitching  so that it is unifofrm. It makes for a nice flat, square edge and the stitches always come out an even distance from the edge. Don't get me wrong now. I'm not trying to tell you how to stitch. Like I said before, my hand stitching sucks! I'm just looking for some constructive criticism of my technique. As far as the stitching pony goes, I don't know how yours is set up, but on mine I place it in the pony and tighten it up and then sew from closest to me to further away from me. On long stitching runs I use two needles and on very short ones I use one needle.

[Cliff Fendley]

I feel like it's best not to drill holes with a drill bit and remove material.  Instead use a tiny nail in your drill and it will punch the hole and then the hole can close back around the thread by dampening and running an overstitch wheel after sewing.

It makes a better looking IMO and better holding stitch and by doing it this way you get the same final result as an awl.

[davemyrick]

1/4" from the edge is too far is too far in my opinion. I didnt go into it but I will now. Take an Osbourne #4 edger for up to 9 ounce and a #5 edger for thicker stuff and edge the grain side of the project. I dont like the groover since it strips the grain side off of the leather. This strips the protective layer off of the leather. If you stitch properly, and pull your threads tight, they will still be below  the surface. After the seam is complete, I will take  the edge of the project to a sander to even the edges, then redye, treat with gum and slick the edge.  Then the seam should be pounded with a flat faced hammer such as a cobbler's hammer against a granite slab to set the seam and even any minor puckers or bunches.This yields and edge seam that is smooth, sealed polished and protected.

I always use two needles even for something as small as a three stitch bar tack. The method I described has been used in making fine English style tack for many many years, like more than two hundred. This method works for fine stitches of up to 12 stitches per inch and as few as 4 spi. The English didnt/don't use Barge cement but fish glue was prevalent in the 18th and 19th century

When piercing the holes for the thread, you want to use a diamond shaped awl. The awl will make a hole by moving the fibers and cells of the leather aside rather than removing material. This should be apparent why its beneficial. Linen thread properly treated with a pitch/beeswax mixture is also a key part of the seam. When the threads are pulled through the hole, the friction between them and and the leather will cause enough heat that causes some of the wax/pitch to melt sealing the hole and glue the threads together.

I don't use a pony, tried it and found it to be not up to the task. I don't know of any serious craftsman that uses them either. Find an English clam or a horse to use. Weaver Leather sells a horse that is more than adaquate. A horse differs from the pony in that it is a tool unto itself. It has large jaws to hole the project mounted to a bench that you actually sit on. When the project is chucked up into the horse it should not be clamped in so as the jaws leave marks on the leather. It is not uncommon to have to frequently readjust the piece.

Dave

[Cliff Fendley]

HMMM  I use a pony..... Chuck Burrows uses a pony. I may be in question but Mr. Burrows is certainly to be considered a serious craftsman! I guess we aren't serious craftsmen if we sit in our easy chairs while we sew Sure helps my poor old worn out back though

[davemyrick]

HMMM  I use a pony..... Chuck Burrows uses a pony. I may be in question but Mr. Burrows is certainly to be considered a serious craftsman! I guess we aren't serious craftsmen if we sit in our easy chairs while we sew Sure helps my poor old worn out back though

I said that I don't know of any, not that there weren't any.
Dave

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Hi,

I traded a Winchester 94 Side ejector for a Stitching Horse that JD Alan took sympthy to me and traded it ....

and I haven't looked back ... I have a Stitching Pony by Ace Lunger, and just bought a small pony from Tandy  .... more for show than anything else ...

[Slowhand Bob]

There are just to many variables to make the call for someone else.  A couple of questions are pertinent  here, are you working with lined holsters and belts very much, do you prefer to sew the bullet loops on?  Are you needing to make a couple of rigs a month or do you need to do that much a day?  Yes there are a few like Chuck or Will who do have the abilities and recognition to make a primary living while still hand sewing but most full time pros are needing to rely on a certain amount of expanded production to make it into the black.  I have used, and cussed, the old BOSS I once had and will tell anyone that it was not even close to the Juki based sewing machines.  I'll go a step further and say that if I had it to do again I would have saved the money spent on Tippmann sewing machines and purchased a quality electric machine much sooner BUT for my needs, the BOSS would be considered far superior to hand sewing.  Just from a physical standpoint, I had reached the end of the line with hand stitching.  The joints in my fingers and knuckles were just not able to perform that task any longer.