Watching the cavalry trilogy

[Gen Lew Wallace]

Do you ever bust out the classic John Ford cavalry trilogy movies and watch them?  I like to watch them every so often to glean a visual picture of my impression/outfits.  I know that they are Hollywood, but it's still fun to see. 

I watched Fort Apache last night and noticed Sgt Maj O'Rourke's vest when his son Mickey came home.  Was that vest style ever around then, or am I thinking it's purely 20th century?  Also, when the 4 Sgt's were in the guard house and O'Rourke was chewing them out, what does it mean when he says something to the like of "take the kibler..."  Is he referring to a kibler knapsack?  And just what are "exposed gallatins" as LtCol Thursday says to Capt York? 

It's amazing the things I pick up each time I watch these movies.  It makes me miss quality time growing up and watching these movies with my dad. 

[River City John]

I wonder if "exposed gallatins" refers to appearing with their suspenders showing, although the word I'm familiar with is "galluses" from the older "gallows".

RCJ

[Grapeshot]

Do you ever bust out the classic John Ford cavalry trilogy movies and watch them?  I like to watch them every so often to glean a visual picture of my impression/outfits.  I know that they are Hollywood, but it's still fun to see. 

I watched Fort Apache last night and noticed Sgt Maj O'Rourke's vest when his son Mickey came home.  Was that vest style ever around then, or am I thinking it's purely 20th century?  Also, when the 4 Sgt's were in the guard house and O'Rourke was chewing them out, what does it mean when he says something to the like of "take the kibler..."  Is he referring to a kibler knapsack?  And just what are "exposed gallatins" as LtCol Thursday says to Capt York? 

It's amazing the things I pick up each time I watch these movies.  It makes me miss quality time growing up and watching these movies with my dad. 

Col. Thursday was refering to the troopers Suspenders.  They were not autherized to be worn showing when wearing the Blue Shirt.  The were to be worn under the Blouse.

As far as what Ward Bond was refering to while dressing down his miscaltriant NCO's I have to agree that he was talking about a heavy laden pack that the prisoneers were to wear while marching on a prescribed course as punishment.  Shovelling Manure was also a tried and true punishment detail.

I think the vest was pure Hollywood inovation.

[Gen Lew Wallace]

I was wondering about the suspenders.  So with that and the knapsack and the vest I think we've pretty much surrounded it.  Always fun to do a little detective work and find some answers. 

[Gen Lew Wallace]

I had a thought about the suspenders.  How does one wear a shirt over them and still tuck it into the trousers?

[S. Quentin Quale, Esq.]

Col. Thursday was refering to the troopers Suspenders.  They were not autherized to be worn showing when wearing the Blue Shirt.  The were to be worn under the Blouse.

As far as what Ward Bond was refering to while dressing down his miscaltriant NCO's I have to agree that he was talking about a heavy laden pack that the prisoneers were to wear while marching on a prescribed course as punishment.  Shovelling Manure was also a tried and true punishment detail.

I think the vest was pure Hollywood inovation.

It's been a while since I've watched the Trilogy, but the waistcoat has been around as part of the Army uniform for a very long time.  It prominantly appears in many ACW era photos.  I don't know if it was an authorized item during the IW period, but it would have made sense in many climates.  It also made sense in an era where removing one's coat and showing a shirt was a serious breach of etiquette.

SQQ

[Pitspitr]

I think the vest was pure Hollywood inovation.

The vest wasn't an issued item, but there is too much photographic evidence of it's use to be a Hollywood invention.

[1961MJS]

Hi

My knowledge is American Civil War mainly, but the vest was NOT an issue item in any of the books I have.  On the other hand, most men didn't leave the house without it.  It's my understanding that the vest held the watch and any smoking material.

later

[cpt dan blodgett]

1872 clothing reg from GAF Site under miscellaneous:
   Officers when not on duty are permitted to wear a buff, white, or blue vest, with the small button prescribed for them.

[Pitspitr]

1872 clothing reg from GAF Site under miscellaneous:
   Officers when not on duty are permitted to wear a buff, white, or blue vest, with the small button prescribed for them.

Right, but again officers were not "issued" their uniforms and purchased them. They were "permitted" not issued. Many enlisted men followed their officers' examples and purchased them as well.

[cpt dan blodgett]

It appears the uniform regs more or less act like a change or update to the pre-existing reg.  In this case think you need to go back to the 1858 reg to get the "prescribed" for the small buttons