Spencers in Canada During the Fenian Invasion, 1866-1867.

[Tuolumne Lawman]

Attached is a great article from Canadian Small Arms Review on Spencers in Canada during the Fenian invasion in  1866-1867.  The article is courtesy of Rattlesnake Jack over in the GAF forum.  He will be the owner of a 56-50 Spencer rifle soon.

ARGH.... It isn't letting me attach them.  I'll email them to Two Flints to post:

Here they are T.L.  
















                                               (Posted by Two Flints)

[Two Flints]

Not what T.L. wanted me to do, this is quicker right now.

See the link and the connecting links:

http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,42379.msg532791.html#msg532791

[Tuolumne Lawman]

Thanks, TF, that's even better!  I must have missed that post, somehow.

[RattlesnakeJack]

Just a slight correction ..... the article is actually from the "Canadian Journal of Arms Collecting" (Volume 24, No. 4 - November 1986 - to be even more specific .....)

Here is the front cover of that issue, which I thought I might as well post, since it relates to this article .....



As a bit of an update on progress toward my ownership of a Cimarron reproduction Spencer rifle (.56-50) I spoke to the distributor at the Calgary gun show yesterday, and he indicated he understands it will be shipped Monday .... so presumably all the necessary paperwork has now been completed ......

At the gun show I acquired a nice original .56-.50 rimfire cartridge with the Sage Ammunition Works headstamp found on most of the Canadian-purchased cartridges .....

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Here is the article reporting on the spencer rifles found in the mud;

http://www.cascity.com/pdf/Canadian-Spencer-rifle-article.pdf

[DJ]

Thanks, Tuolumne Lawman and Rattlesnake Jack.  Very interesting article.  Hard to imagine Canada and the U.S. edging toward war.  Now that the Canadians have learned to put ice in their sodas, it's unthinkable.

--DJ

[Preston County Rider]

DJ - you forgot the eh? Spencers, eh? Well, how-boot that, eh?

Apologies to our Spencer friends in the Great White North.......eh

[PJ Hardtack]

John Wayne used to say - " ... eh?"  Watch some of his old movies.

We say it because of the way we spell Canada -  'C' and and 'a', an 'n' and an 'a' ... etc.

[RattlesnakeJack]

Actually, I understand that quintessentially Canadian expression explains how they came up with the name of Canada.  

The committee appointed to create a name finally agreed on using three consonants, but were stumped on what vowels to use .....   Someone asked the chairperson to recap their progress so far by reading the three chosen consonants aloud, to hopefully trigger some ideas for vowels to go with them ......

He stood and said:  "C, eh?  N, eh?  D, eh? .......  

[Tuolumne Lawman]

Thanks, Tuolumne Lawman and Rattlesnake Jack.  Very interesting article.  Hard to imagine Canada and the U.S. edging toward war.  Now that the Canadians have learned to put ice in their sodas, it's unthinkable.

--DJ

Actually it was the second time.  Google "the Pig War". in 1859 a war almost started over a British peccary indulging in a an American settler's garden on an island in the Straight of San Juan de Fuca on an island shared by both Canadians and Americans....  General Picket (then captain) of Southern Civil War fame led American troops in the stand off.

[PJ Hardtack]

Grant - congratulations on your recent acquisition!

What bullet do you intend to shoot in your Spencer rifle? I've got both a 375 gr Rapine and the Lyman 515141 Gov't for my 50-70s.
A problem I've experienced with 100% BP in the 30" rifle is bore fouling near the muzzle.
In the shorter barrel carbine, the same applies with the 375 gr. as it has one less grease groove. I'm using SPG lube. That's why I've started to use a duplex load consisting of 5 grs SR4759/60 grs FFg BP.

If you use the Spencer in a match, bore fouling could be a problem. Just something to be aware of .....

[major]

He stood and said:  "C, eh?  N, eh?  D, eh? .......  

And when he had finished with the vowels for Canada someone asked if there were any left for the Yanks?  He answered "how about U S a"?

[RattlesnakeJack]

Grant - congratulations on your recent acquisition! .... What bullet do you intend to shoot in your Spencer rifle?

Although the Spencer is still only a 'pending' acquisition, I have made the commitment and anxiously await its arrival!

I currently have the 340 to 350 gr. Lyman 515139 for my Peabody, and am hoping it will be satisfactory.  if not, I'll be seeking opinions on what mould would be better.

Another question I might as well pose now:  I have a set of .50-70 dies which work just fine for loading the .50-60 Peabody, so I plan to try those first ..... although I realize that the Spencer cartridge is even shorter, so they may not in fact be suitable.  Does anyone know for sure whether they can be made to work?  If not, I suppose I had better get a set of .56-.50 dies ordered!

[PJ Hardtack]

Grant

Considering that the 50-70 cases are 1-3/4" long, the 56-50 1-5/32", I doubt that your 50-70 dies will serve for the Spencer cases. Your Peabody cases are 1-7/16", so if they work in your dies, so much the better.

Case measurements from: "Cartridges" by Herschel Logan

[Herbert]

Grant - congratulations on your recent acquisition!

What bullet do you intend to shoot in your Spencer rifle? I've got both a 375 gr Rapine and the Lyman 515141 Gov't for my 50-70s.
A problem I've experienced with 100% BP in the 30" rifle is bore fouling near the muzzle.
In the shorter barrel carbine, the same applies with the 375 gr. as it has one less grease groove. I'm using SPG lube. That's why I've started to use a duplex load consisting of 5 grs SR4759/60 grs FFg BP.

If you use the Spencer in a match, bore fouling could be a problem. Just something to be aware of .....

Which Rapine mould are you using,I have used the 515141 Lyman mould in my rifle and have no fouling problem ,but I use a mixture of bees wax and olive oil,allso the climate here would be diffrent,humidity is genrally high except in winter and then I just add a bit more olive oil to the lube,this has never failed

[PJ Hardtack]

Herbert

My Rapine mould is the 520375. I bought it off this web site. It drops bullets at .518 and I'm sizing them down to .512. The design already is one grease groove less than the Lyman 515141 and the sizing further reduces the capacity of the grease grooves. That may be part of the fouling problem.
However, I've found that by using a duplex load, fouling isn't a problem. It's just when I shoot 65 grs of 100% BP.

[RattlesnakeJack]

TL:  The "Pig War" in reality involved only U.S. and British forces (Royal Navy and Royal Marines) at a time when present-day British Columbia was two separate Crown Colonies (Vancouver Island and British Columbia, the latter only just established in 1858) .... and the later united Colony of British Columbia did not join the Dominion of Canada as a Province until 1871 ..... so one can truthfully say "Canadians" weren't involved.   

I attended the annual Pig War Encampment on San Juan Island in 2008, to bolster what was a very "Thin Red Line" that particular year ..... and also a rather elderly line!







The "redcoats" in the above photos constituted pretty much the entire British Contingent ..... and I was the only Canadian, the others all being Americans!  (That year was not only the 150th anniversary of the founding of the Crown Colony of British Columbia, but also of the Fraser River Gold Rush and of the arrival there of the Columbia Detachment of the Royal Engineers .... so the usual reenactors from BC were 'busy at home' .....

[Tuolumne Lawman]

I stand corrected, sir!  I do love the panache' of the "red coats," though.  In the 1980s when I was a cop in the Seattle area, we were up at the Peace Arch celebration on the border with our Girl Scout daughter.  My wife conspired with the RCMP there, resplendent in the dress red coat uniforms, to grab me, and handcuff me so she could take pictures of it!  We exchanged some patches and things. I still have a RCMP hat emblem somewhere.

[PJ Hardtack]

Tuolumne Lawman

Once was a time Canadians were proud to have a few RCMP items on hand - caps badges, flashes, collar dogs, belt buckles, etc., but not any more.
The attitude of the RCMP (and other Canadian police forces) has changed dramatically over the last decade or so. They are now blatantly anti-gun and have usurped Parliament by arbitrarily and retroactively deciding which guns we can own based on looks. Recently an AK-47 look-alike in .22 LR was declared "prohibited" and owners were required to surrender them or have them seized - no compensation. If it wasn't for the now scrapped long gun registry, they wouldn't even have known who to contact.

It's crime? It LOOKS like the 7.62mm x 39mm AK-47! It cannot be made to shoot centre-fire ammo by design and material. Pray tell how it constitutes a threat to society not posed by a Ruger 10-22 or any other .22 semi-auto rifle? The same maker offers a Russian PPSH in .22 LR but I don't think it has been declared "prohibited". Some other maker is now offering a German Sturmgewehr 44 in .22 LR. We probably won't be allowed to own that either.
We can't own 'bull-pup' design rifles as the STOCKS are deemed a no-no. Logical, huh? There are no recorded incidents of an AK-47 (.22 or 7.62) or a bull-pup stocked rifle being used in the commission of a crime.
We anxiously await their definition of "sniper" rifle to see which of our guns is next to be confiscated and/or prohibited. Most likely .50 BMG and .338 Lapua target rifles.

You are more likely to be killed or assaulted by a cop in Canada than by a goblin. If not shot in the back of the head while in custody for having an open beer in public (Fort St. John) or kicked in the head for having a shotgun in your vehicle used to scare geese by a golf course employee (Kelowna), or zapped repeatedly by a Taser (Polish immigrant Robert Dziekanski at Vancouver Airport) and held down until you die, no assistance being offered to sustain life.
The Corporal who led that assault was more recently charged with obstruction and failing to remain at the scene of an accident after killing a motorcyclist, taking his kids home and having a few more drinks "to settle his nerves" before returning to the crime scene. He was placed on administrative leave with pay pending his trial.

Over 100 female RCMP have come forward to join a class action law suit alleging institutionalized sexual harassment from supervisors and SR. NCOs.

I could go on, but you get the point. The RCMP is no longer held in the high esteem of Canadians as their national police force; especially by gun owners. A review has stated that if they don't clean up their act and regain public support (essential for any police agency) they may not exist in ten years time.

[Tuolumne Lawman]

Wow, times have changed since I lived in the Pacific NW (1979-1988).  I am sorry to hear that....  We had a waive of that in Kalifornia, but fortunately the state Supreme Court reeled the Attorney General in and banned him from making up his own laws.  Our courts are actually doing a decent job protecting us, though we still have some very restrictive laws.