Derringers...I had thought this was posted

[John William McCandles]

And another appears:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=282593458

To big of a price for this cowpoke! Also bid on the other and after seeing what the starting bid is on the second one, I am sure of it.
So back to plan A and who knows I may stumble onto one of these someday that I can afford.

JW

[Pancho Peacemaker]

To big of a price for this cowpoke! Also bid on the other and after seeing what the starting bid is on the second one, I am sure of it.
So back to plan A and who knows I may stumble onto one of these someday that I can afford.

JW

JW, 

If you're looking for a good bargain at something that looks relatively authentic, take a look at the Chiappa Double Eagle.  I picked up one in nickel for $95 used.  You can only find them in .22lr.  It would be legal for side matches.   Rumor has it these are going to be discontinued if not already so.  Here's a sample:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=282863690

[John William McCandles]

JW, 

If you're looking for a good bargain at something that looks relatively authentic, take a look at the Chiappa Double Eagle.  I picked up one in nickel for $95 used.  You can only find them in .22lr.  It would be legal for side matches.   Rumor has it these are going to be discontinued if not already so.  Here's a sample:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=282863690

That's what I'm planning to do. It should do just fine for side matches.

JW

[RickB]

Yeah, the chiappa is more my price range too. Going to have to do some research on them. 

[OklaTom]

If you really want a 38 center fire derringer that has been approved by NCOWS, look for the Excam TA-38, the FIE D38 and the Rohm 17.  Those are all solid derringers, in 38 Special, and almost always can be had for less than $200.  I have seen them go as low as $75.

[RickB]

Thanks Tom,  I'll start doing searches for those models as well. Always good to have choices.

[OklaTom]

Photos for reference on others approved.
EIG


Excam TA-38


FIE D-38


Herter's Western Derringer (also marketed under Western Arms Derringer)


Rohm Model 17

[OklaTom]

Of course these Remingtons are legit, too.  The trick is in finding the 41RF ammo without paying up to $3 per shot.   





Obviously, I have always had a thing for the derringer.  I think it was Paladin on Have Gun Will Travel that started that when I was a kid.   

[Major 2]

This one sold for $59

http://www.gunauction.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=8826261

[John William McCandles]

If you really want a 38 center fire derringer that has been approved by NCOWS, look for the Excam TA-38, the FIE D38 and the Rohm 17.  Those are all solid derringers, in 38 Special, and almost always can be had for less than $200.  I have seen them go as low as $75.

Tom; Thanks for posting this as I was not sure of the quality on these approved versions, this will broaden my search.

JW

[OklaTom]

Tom; Thanks for posting this as I was not sure of the quality on these approved versions, this will broaden my search.

JW

For the most part, though some may look a little rough or poorly made, the Excam and FIE (really the same derringer, different importers) are fine little shooters.  They are generally solid but when buying a used one, always ask if the barrel to frame lock up is tight before you bid.  I have seen (and owned) some loose ones where evidently someone thought it a good idea to shoot 38 +P, which will create enough pressure and recoil to loosen the latch at the bottom of the barrel.  Shoot 38 Colt (Long or Short) in them and they are also pretty comfortable to handle. 

[RickB]

What is the thoughts on the Davis Industries derringer?

It looks pretty close to the old Remingtons. It does have a fake rib along the top of the barrel.

Here is an example of the one I'm talking about.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=283078064

[OklaTom]

What is the thoughts on the Davis Industries derringer?

It looks pretty close to the old Remingtons. It does have a fake rib along the top of the barrel.

Here is an example of the one I'm talking about.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=283078064

Let me start with the statement that the Davis was not reviewed so it was neither approved nor disapproved by Congress, as I had no example to submit.  I made the argument that it should be lumped with the Cobra derringers, since Bill Gentry bought out Davis and started making exactly the same derringers, only marked Cobra Enterprises.  Sometimes, I have even received Cobra derringers with Davis grips on them as they used up old inventory of parts.  That being said, I would offer the following statements as my opinion only, and the Judge and the Authenticity Committee would have to address this for a final ruling.

First, the small frame Davis would fail for the same reasons that the small frame Cobra failed the litmus test - it is too small.  It is about 75% the size of the original Remington, which was the exemplar used in evaluation.

Second, there is the issue of the ventilated (or simulated ventilated) rib.  That was the feature that knocked the Cobra Derringers out of the running.

Third, the 25 ACP and the 32 ACP cartridges are not approved calibers.  The 25 ACP was introduced by Browning in 1905 for the FN 1905 pocket pistol.  The 32 ACP was designed in our time frame (first conceived by Browning in about 1896 or 1897), but was first used in the FN M1900 pistol at the turn of the century.  While I am no expert and may have the dates off a little, I would still suggest they would not be approved.  In order to get plain lead bullet loads for these, one would probably have to cast and handload them.  The Tally Book states:

Approved calibers and loads include any that were introduced prior to or during the period of 1865-1899 and that were originally introduced as a black powder load.

Thus, these original smokeless round don't meet that requirement.

Again, I am only stating my opinion here.  Judge Roger Ragland and the Authenticity Committee would have to actually rule on this.

[RickB]

Thanks for your comments. I was not aware they were that small. I guess I've only seen them in pictures and it's hard to know what size they are from pictures.

I was wondering about the mock venting at the ridge along the barrel. It does make the gun look a little odd.

The caliber would be, in my opinion, the killing point for the guns (aside from the size issue) so I can understand why they would not be passed by the AC.

Maybe I will stick with my S&W pocket pistols in .32 and .38 for any side matches that require a pocket pistol. Heaven knows I've got a 1/2 dozen of them now and ammo for each so it would be no problem using them.

Like you with derringers, I'm a guy who goes crazy for those little S&W break top pocket pistols.

[OklaTom]

Maybe I will stick with my S&W pocket pistols in .32 and .38 for any side matches that require a pocket pistol. Heaven knows I've got a 1/2 dozen of them now and ammo for each so it would be no problem using them.

Like you with derringers, I'm a guy who goes crazy for those little S&W break top pocket pistols.

Man, don't even get me started on pocket pistols.  At one time, I had 173 of them.  I sold off duplicates, keeping the nicest of them. I think I am down to about 80 now.  But I find myself looking at them on the auction sites all the time.  I won the Pocket Pistol and Derringer side matches last year using a S&W New Departure and a Rohm 17 derringer.  That Smith of mine is not only nice looking, but smooth as warm butter.  Pictured here with its big brother 44DA.

[RickB]

DANG man, thems purty. I like them lots.

If you ever clean out your collection again let me know. 

It's obvious you've got good taste in firearms.

[OklaTom]

It's obvious you've got good taste in firearms.

Best part? I have only $700 total in both of them.  I doubt I will be in any hurry to sell these.

[Raton Rick]

I won the Pocket Pistol and Derringer side matches last year using a S&W New Departure and a Rohm 17 derringer. That Smith of mine is not only nice looking, but smooth as warm butter.  Pictured here with its big brother 44DA.




Actually we both won the Pocket Pistol and Derringer side matches last year. You with black powder, and me with smokeless. Your S&W pocket pistol is way better looking than my old Iver Johnson. I just picked up Rohm 17 derringer to replace my Bond Arms, but without the engraving of my Bond Arms, it just looks so plain.  

[OklaTom]

Right.  I won Black Powder category.

[OklaTom]

I just picked up Rohm 17 derringer to replace my Bond Arms, but without the engraving of my Bond Arms, it just looks so plain.  

When is a Rohm 17 not quite so plain?  When it is nickel plated with pearlite grips and still new and unfired in the box.