Bushings, Hodgdon data and my scale don't jive

rickk · April 04, 2012, 04:29:16 PM

As the powder settles in the bottle it will get a bit more densely packed. Hence, a good reason to shoot for a nominal value that is a bit on the lighter side of what the book says.

.3-.4 grains when loading 12 grains isn't something you are going to notice. If you want to prove it to yourself, load a few off a scale a little under and a few a little over and see if you can tell them apart.

I leave mine in bottles on the press. I guess I am too busy and just want to be ready to load when I have a few minutes to load. I haven't had a problem over the course of many months. I'm not saying I won't ever have a problem, but I guess that you don't need to worry too much about a few days.

Rick

Steel Horse Bailey · April 04, 2012, 04:56:19 PM

Powder stored in the hopper overnight isn't gonna hurt. How-some-ever, prolonged storage (a week or more) can turn some bottles into the consistency of Saran Wrap. And while the bottles may not be hurt, they often get discolored ... which is probably the 1st step to ruination. Then there's the possible moisture issues, depending on the surrounding humid-id-i-ty.

Longshot Lil · April 04, 2012, 08:39:51 PM

Funny you should mention the discoloration of the bottles and "ruination". I noticed a crack in the powder bottle tonight as we were loading (remember we bought this as "used", even though it was still in new condition...it obviously sat for a long time in someone's basement or something). I started to remove the bottle and it totally fell apart in my hands! Fortunately, I didn't cut myself on the sharp plastic, and I didn't end up with powder everywhere. I was able to tip the powder into a bowl and save it, and then put on gloves to remove the rest of the bottle. We'll be picking up TWO new bottles when we go to the store next, the shot bottle is the same yellowed, brittle-looking plastic. So the powder is stored in its original container now. If we know it's going to be a two-nighter reloading fest, we'll leave the powder in the bottle overnight and empty it when we're done on the second day.

AND...and update to the problem of consistent throws that are the proper weight. WE DID IT! I figured out what we needed to do! Before each throw of powder, I tap the top of the bottle 5 times with the 3 middle fingers of my hand, about the intensity of "table drumming". This packs the powder in just enough. We were getting consistent throws right around the 12.3 mark with the recommended #18 bushing. Some were a hair light or a hair heavy, but they were all where we felt totally comfortable. I wrote down what we did so we don't end up forgetting (usually for me, if I write it down, I will remember it without having to refer to my notes). I hope that helps another newbie to shotshell reloading. I think this Win AA Lite powder is just that....LITE and needs a bit of encouragement to fill the bushing properly. We ended our reloading session weighing only every other shell. Next time we load, we'll weigh the first few, and then probably only every 5 or so until we gain more confidence in the process.

Thank you ever so much y'all for taking the time to share your knowledge and thoughts with us. We're on our way to reloading a lot of shells now that the frustrating part is over!

Lil and Outrider

rickk · April 05, 2012, 09:18:28 AM

The bottles always get yellow with age and then they get brittle and then they break. I believe it is because they are UV sensitive. You certainly don't want to break a bottle full of shot. New bottles, when mail ordered, are pretty cheap. It is nice to have multiple bottles (and the caps that go with them) of different sizes of shot and different powders so you don't have to mess around with dumping bottles.

I have multiple powder bottles but in retrospect that really hasn't been of much use since once I got things rolling I haven't used anything but one type of powder. I have 30 different bushings as well, but after the first week of experimenting I haven't changed bushings. I do have a different powder in another bottle for an experiment with sabotted slugs that I have planned, but it hasn't happened yet.

If you plan on a serious reloading session, be aware that you can get the bottles in different sizes. There is a larger bottle that can be used for shot. It roughly doubles the capacity of the shot hopper, which means more mileage between filling. Filling can be messy so I try to avoid doing it any more than I have to. Also, MEC makes a special funnel that goes over the shot bottle that significantly reduces the chance of a mess.

Longshot Lil · April 05, 2012, 09:46:28 AM

Well Rick...I've already had the pleasure of cleaning up shot! I have found a fairly easy technique and it allows for the re-use of the shot. I will post that somewhere so someone else can benefit from my experimentation.

I know the bottles come in two sizes. We'll stick to the smaller ones. Our reloading sessions I don't think are going to be monumental. I mean, you have to have empty hulls for that, right?

I've not had any problem with loading shot into the bottle. We just pour shot from the bag into a yogurt cup, and then I cup my hand around the top of the bottle and pinch the cup slightly so that it forms somewhat of a spout. Then I slowly pour the shot in. Not one hits the floor this way. My experience with having to clean up shot came from forgetting that the cap was off the top when changing the bushing (while we were trying to find the right one), and forgetting to pull the handle down before throwing the charge bar.

I don't see us using more than one formula for loading. The 12 is Outrider's gun, and he is going to want light loads all the time (CAS is the only thing that gun will be used for). When we get the reloader for my 20, we'll get that set up for its load and go from there.

Sir Charles deMouton-Black · April 05, 2012, 03:07:32 PM

A tip from a cheapskate!

Soda bottles and their caps can make do when you run out of the factory kind.

P.S; I wonder if they are static prone?

Jefro · April 05, 2012, 06:13:42 PM

Quote from: Longshot Lil on April 04, 2012, 04:09:01 PM
Our problem right now is that they are weighing not just 1/10 one way or another...we're talking 3-4 tenths.

Howdy Lil, sounds like you have things worked out. A few tenths one way or the other is not uncommon when loading shot shells. The bushings hold alot more powder than your pistol loads, depending on the type of powder it could easily a few tenths off per shell. After a while you'll get comfortable with a bushing that's close enough and forget about thumping the bottle. In your case if I found one that threw 12.0-12.4, or 11.9-12.3 I'd rock and roll with it. Good Luck

Jefro

Relax-Enjoy

rickk · April 05, 2012, 08:10:41 PM

Speaking of "thumping the bottle"... watch the bottle get jiggled all by itself as you work each hull thru it's paces.

Longshot Lil · April 05, 2012, 08:23:40 PM

Without "thumping the bottle", we're getting throws of 11.4-11.6. For a load that is supposed to be 12.3, I just don't feel comfortable. I'm happy that we're getting a consistent throw (more or less) with this method...and yes, I know the powder gets settled as the press is operated, but after 25 shells through, it should be pretty settled, and it was still throwing way light until I started thumping on the bottle before every throw (it packed more down in the bushing). I think that this powder is just really light and doesn't want to pack down much without a little assistance.

Found a couple things that will work for replacements and we'll see how they do. They are both extra water bottles (for critters). One of them is glass and with it tightened onto the grommet, it should be even more air tight than the factory container the powder comes in so we can leave it in there (the glass won't react with the powder like it would with plastic) It is fairly skinny, so it fits nicely next to the other water bottle that we'll try for the shot. This one is plastic and has a top that comes completely off, leaving an opening of about 3" diameter for refilling. Both bottles will fit on just fine next to each other. We'll see how that goes.

Jefro · April 05, 2012, 08:57:03 PM

Quote from: Longshot Lil on April 05, 2012, 08:23:40 PM
Without "thumping the bottle", we're getting throws of 11.4-11.6. For a load that is supposed to be 12.3,

Howdy Lil, then you need to bump up to the next bushing, that should take care of it. Good Luck

Jefro

Relax-Enjoy

rickk · April 06, 2012, 06:31:00 AM

This powder baffle may help. I have been using one since day one, so I cant really comment on how bad it would be without it.:
http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Powder-Baffle-for-MEC-loaders-PCPB-2/productinfo/PCPB2/

Be aware that there is a more expensive metal baffle out there as well too. Most comments I have seen say the plastic one works way better.

Again, keep the bottle over half full, even with the baffle.

Small plastic bottle: http://www.ballisticproducts.com/MEC-Small-Bottle-Cap-Assembly-301L/productinfo/130301L/
large plastic bottle: http://www.ballisticproducts.com/MEC-Large-Capacity-Bottle-Cap-8042/productinfo/1308042/

Bottle funnel... after the first time you dump a bag of shot all over the place you will wish you already had one: http://www.ballisticproducts.com/MEC-EZ-Fill-Funnel-8994/productinfo/1308994/

Rubber grommets (good to have a few... you will need them eventually, if not already) : http://www.ballisticproducts.com/MEC-Rubber-Grommet-1_pak-304G/productinfo/130304G/

Brass Washer... good to have at least one around: http://www.ballisticproducts.com/MEC-Brass-Washer-1_pak-304W/productinfo/130304W/

Bottle support if yours does not have one... mandatory if using large shot bottle, but still nice to have when taking a partially full bottle out for one reason or another. http://www.ballisticproducts.com/MEC-Single-Stage-Bottle-Support-8939/productinfo/1308939/

Powder bushings... why pay retail price?: http://www.ballisticproducts.com/MEC-Powder-Bushing/productinfo/130MC/

If you acquire a few bushings, you will wish you had one of these.... I have three... they are nice to have. You can store a couple of charge bars on it as well :
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MEC-Powder-Bushing-Holder-Aluminum-Mountable-Very-Nice-/130618919549?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e697e8a7d

For what it's worth, I would avoid a glass powder container. I probably worry too much, but I have personally had a primer tray on a LEE PRO1000 explode on me so I think about things more than some people do. Yes, the odds of something going wrong in the powder container are really, really small. I have never heard of a powder container fire, but if there ever was one, a glass bottle would be bad. A plastic one would just tear open and vent the gas... only a brief but intense fire. The original MEC bottles would pop the red plug out, reducing pressure in a safer direction.The glass one would explode.

Rick

Longshot Lil · April 06, 2012, 08:05:09 AM

Quote from: Jefro on April 05, 2012, 08:57:03 PM
Howdy Lil, then you need to bump up to the next bushing, that should take care of it. Good Luck

Jefro Relax-Enjoy

Jefro-- The next bushing up throws consistently way too high.

Longshot Lil · April 06, 2012, 08:19:28 AM

Thanks for all the info Rick.

For what it's worth, some of the items you listed were out of stock (the bottle), and the prices listed were pretty close to what we'd pay at the store, plus we'd not have to pay shipping and we'd have them immediately, not have to wait for them to arrive. I do appreciate the info though. It was very kind of you to take so much time helping us with our issue.

Good point about the glass bottle, but we probably won't keep the powder in the machine anyway, just for the sake of safety. Plus there is no telling what the powder might do to the grommet over time. I'd rather not use the baffle because then we end up starting all over again trying to find what bushing works and we had two days of frustration with that already. We may be weird, but we're not using the bag the shot came in to pour it from into the bottle. We're pouring it into a little plastic cup and using that to pour into the bottle. When we pour from the bag, we can put the cup inside a dishpan (not used for dishes) to catch any that might spill, but we've not had that happen. We may end up putting the shot into a plastic coffee can so we can scoop it out instead. Still working on getting organized with that. The bottle that we'll likely use as a replacement for the shot has a 3" opening at the top and with the cup being a smaller diameter, I doubt we'd be dumping shot all over.

I do appreciate the time you took to post all of that. Maybe it will help someone else.

rickk · April 11, 2012, 06:13:48 AM

Lil,

Did they go "boom"?

Rick

Longshot Lil · April 11, 2012, 07:46:18 AM

Rick,

Don't know yet...have been too busy with other things to go to the range to play. Our first practice shoot is Saturday morning, so I'm sure we'll know then. I have a 20 gauge reloader on the way to me, so I can reload shells for me! ~Lil

rickk · April 22, 2012, 05:29:09 PM

Lil, how did things work out ?

Longshot Lil · April 23, 2012, 10:13:55 AM

Rick--

Everything going well, thanks for asking. Ended up going with a bushing larger and putting a little tape inside it to get just the right powder amount. Throws are much more consistent and getting comfortable with the idea of weighing every other powder throw (for now). Hubby and I have a great system of working together so reloading goes pretty quickly. Picked up a bunch of 12 ga shells at the range this past weekend for hubby, but out of luck on more 20's for me this time around. Guess I'll just have to go empty some of the ones I have loaded eh?