Is this Possible?

[LazyK Pejay]

Folks with my Remington 30-06 with a 6-12 50 scope I rate rate 600 yds as very long range. At 500 yards the kenetic energy of 2,200 foot pounds is only 850 foot pounds with a 30-06 180 grain. A 180 grain sighted in at 3" high at 100 yards, will hit about 4" high at 200 yards, almost dead on at 300 yards, will drop to about 4" low at 350 yards, and less than 10 inches low at 400 yards. This is a range that we all know as "pretty darned far".

In my opinion no one can hit five out of five at that range with a pistol standing. In fact one out of five would a literal "hole in one!" If I had my 30-06 in a vise stand I might come real close in five shots, and perhaps hit it once.

LazyK Pejay

[Prof. Bullspit]

I've read Elmer and I believed Elmer. I played with long range (for me, 200-300 yards) pistol shooting and found that what Elmer wrote was possible.

I wouldn't stand at 585 yards and let anyone shoot in my direction! That said, I would bet some significant money (for me, $100.00) that any given shooter couldn't hit an 18 inch square target 5 for 5 shots at 585 yards without any sighting or ranging shots.

I would NOT bet that same amount of money if the shooter was given 5 ranging shots before the 5 "record" shots. I'd have to lower my bet to about $20.00.

If the bet was 3 out of 5 I wouldn't bet against the shooter at all.

[Delmonico]

Kind of my conclusion, not if the shooter in question (I still wait for the link) did it, but the question was is it possible.  I've stretched it to 500-600 at times, a heavy bullet for the caliber is a must, I have not had time to practice as much as Elmer, but I also would not want any one to shoot at me at that range if they had even the slightest idea what they were doing.

I can tell you even a 243 will kick up a heck of a dust cloud when you get to around 1200 in a disced field.  Did not hit the target in question, but made it feel very unwelcome as that was all that I had hoped for. 

Also remember the rate of deceleration gets less as the velocity is lowered, at below the speed of sound it ain't fast at all.  I got some figures upstairs, perhaps I'll dig tommorow.  BTW a 18X18 at 585 is a little more than 3 moa.  This is with in the accuarcy level of most good revolvers with good loads or even a 30-30 lever gun with factory ammo.

[Arcey]

It really wasn't difficult to find......................

http://frontierspot.org/viewtopic.php?t=813&sid=85fcc22f6990642763c05d0b1c4335a2

[B. Butch Cavendish]

 "hell thats nothing, I once shot an elephant in my pajamas...How he got into my pajamas I'll never know." He could not do it period.

[Delmonico]

Well since the origial post said "another board" not even which one, I didn't really want to search for a needle in a haystack.

It just seems funny to me the folks who belive it is possible have all taken a pistol out where they could see strikes and played.  I've not seen no one who don't believe it is "possible" admit to have ever played the game of see what you can hit way out there.  As I have said it is a game of heavy for caliber bullets and enough velocity to put a bullet out and properly stabilize it.   

A good basic study of external ballistics will show it is possible, remmber this is about 3.25 moa not that hard to get a good revolver to do.  but few know what their revolver will do at 100 yards.

[Marshal harpoluke]

 

No subsatute fur doumb luck.

[Delmonico]

Afore this post dissapears I have a question about the original question "Is this possible"   Have any of the nay sayers on this who have vision that will correct to say at least 20/40 or better ever taken a open sighted good quality handgun with good loads, of heavy bullet for caliber ammunition that ain't a mouse pfart and tried something like this?

You know where one can see a bullet strike fer a half mile or more and shooting is safe.

Just a show of hands will be enough.   

[Capt. Hamp Cox]

Just a show of hands will be enough.   

Stayin' cool from all them hands movin' that air 'round, Del?

[Delmonico]

Didn't 'spect to, am holdin' out fer someone to want to make a trip to prairie dog country and willin' to pay the expenses ta prove that us Plainsmen can'rt even see sumthing at 500 yards, let alone walk a pistol bullet onto it.   I ain't played this in a couple years so it will take a few rounds, a cylinder or two.

[Silver Creek Slim]

I may have to take you up on yer offer sometime, Del. I've got an OM Super BlackHawk that would be perfect for it. I might have to try it here first for the fun of it. I got a field that's about 800 yards long 'fore the trees get in the way. 

Slim

[LazyK Pejay]

I'd take a bet on 1 in 5 at that range with those pistols, standing with two hands, after using a target scope to find the target, and building a wall on one side to stop the wind and an errant fly or two

LazyK Pejay

[Delmonico]

Just get down in Elmer's back rest position with a tree or yer pickup to rest yer back on, grab er two handed and rest the bottom of yer hands on yer knees and walk em right on.  For most it works so well you'll scare yerself.


No, you need good enough eyes to see the target with just them,  wind dosen't help but can be dealt with in open country, back in the valleys and hills it often goes more than one direction.

[Silver Creek Slim]

Oh sure. It'll probably swirl on me. 

Slim

[Prof. Bullspit]

I'll echo Delmonico on the shooting stance. Rest your back up against something solid and rest the hands (I like to rest my hands/wrists just where they meet) on your bent knees. Another trick I found that works (I think Elmer wrote about it) is to not take a death grip on your gun. Take a firm but repeatable grip. Let the gun recoil the same for each shot.

I used 170 grain bullets in my .357 and regular 240 grain bullets for the .44 magnum. In neither case did I use very hot loads. Just by the book magnum loads using Unique and 2400.

I shot in an old sand pit. I would put a milk jug filled with water up on the wall. I could see exactly where my misses impacted and the results on the milk jug were fun to witness.

[Delmonico]

We were shootin' at a small weed the disc missed one time at about 450.  My 32 mag with the 124 gr FNGC at about 1250 was hittin' in the weed patch and kickin' up a good dust cloud.  My Brother tried his 45 acp with a 200 gr SWC and it bounced around the field like a marble.  To short and fat to play the game.

[Arcey]

Possible?  Most anything is possible.

For my throwin' in one-liners on this thread, there was no intent to offend.  Don't mind me.

It brought back good memories of winter afternoons when I had the Pungo range to myself.  Back before Cowboy.  Working my way back from fifty yards until I was halfway down the access road, maybe one twenty to one thirty from the berm.  Around here that's about as far as it gets.  I made an 8x10 steel target I hung by chains from the target stands.

I drove a '90 F-150 at the time - glad that's gone - and I'd drop the tailgate.  Fold up a blanket and slip it between the bed and the cab for a backrest.  Have a seat.  Box of cartridges on one side and an empty coffee can for the spent brass on the other.  Hot cup of coffee.  Rest the wrists on the knees and have at it.

Anyone who'd ever been to Pungo in the winter will tell you there was always a wind blowing in the winter.  On a ninety degree Saturday with fourty some odd cowboys crowded around, not a breath of breeze.  That's a different story.  I still miss the place.

It was always fun to try to compensate for the crosswinds.  Five round consecutive strikes weren't rare, but they didn't happen every time.  That was with a pair of Smiths, both six inchers, a Model 686+ and an old, beat up  Model 28.  Both fitted with Hogue grips.  Box stock sights, on the 686+ I'd blacken the red ramp.

The initial load used a heavy charge of 2400 and a Lyman 358429 Keith in .357 Magnum cases.  That load I didn't care much for.  In order get the OAL short enough to chamber in the 28 without the nose of the bullet sticking past the face of the cylinder, I had to crimp it over the forward driving band rather than in the crimp groove.   The thought of having a bullet back into the powder charge under recoil didn't settle well.  I know that's backwards but I still didn't like it.

Switched over to the Thompson designed Lyman 358156.  There were fewer misses with that than the Keith.  Perhaps the gas check helped.  I never put either on paper.  Of course, by then, I'd thrown several hundred of the initial loads downrange so I was probably getting better at the little game.

Tried my Model 14 a few times.  In that, I used my .38 Special plinking load with a Lyman 358477 over a mid range charge of 231.  It was about a 750 fps load, tops.  Hitting the target with it was a matter of luck.

The whole exercise was a blast.  I did it regularly during winter months for a couple years.

We're talking maybe eleven or twelve years ago.  My eyesight was very good then.  The target wasn't much more than a speck, maybe the head of a paper match when one focused on it.  Eye on the front sight, it almost disappeared.  And, remember, that was an 8x10 inch target at 130 yards.  If my math is close my 8x10 would be something like 36x48 at 585 yards.  In perspective, the 18x18 'rock' mentioned in the post would be something like a 4x4 at 130.

So, possible?  Yeah.  Probable?  From my limited long range pistol experience, I'd have to be there.

The 'there' reference above is for those who know who was 'there'.

[Delmonico]

None was taken pard, I hope my sight holds out cause it is a fun game to play.   And it is an additing game that started with a BB Gun and a still pond.

[Free Hand]

Hello folks. Just ran across this old thread and only have one question regarding the real statment of the initial claiment; I'm a bit suprised that no one caught it, but then again I just ain't that familiar with long range shooting. Was  that "eighteen inches square" or eighteen square inches"? Maqkes a bit of a diffrence people.

[Texas Trail Boss]

I thnk with the right amount of "Jack Daniels" in ya & the proper cross winds, anything is possible!