Triple 7

[Tuolumne Lawman]

Who online has the best price on Triple 7?  Where I am at in life, I can't really mess with Holy Black, but I do miss the boom! Besides, I think I am getting a double 12 GA, so I can do Frontier Cartridge again (My 97 just wasn't a good fit for BP!).  I'll probably do Pyrodex in the shotgun, like I used to, as it is cheaper.

[Blackpowder Burn]

I've had my '97 breathe fire as well as my double! 

[Tuolumne Lawman]

I don't mind shooting Pyrodex or Black in a double, but I hate cleaning a 97 after BP!  I  can't afford to load Triple 7 in the shotgun!

[Grapeshot]

I don't mind shooting Pyrodex or Black in a double, but I hate cleaning a 97 after BP!  I  can't afford to load Triple 7 in the shotgun!

What's cheaper, Goex 2Fg or RS Pyrodex?  What's easier to clean up of the two in a Side by side?  In My Experience either BP or Pyrodex clean up with soap and water followed by WD-40 and a good coat of Balistol or CLP.  YMMV

[Blackpowder Burn]

All I ever use is moose milk followed by a patch with neat Ballistol and a wipedown with RemWipes.  I find cleaning a gun after shooting black is much easier than cleaning one shot with smokeless.  The only problem is you have to clean them more than once per year! 

[August]

Just had to respond as your question implied you think substitute powders are easier to use than black powder.

Substitute powders are all corrosive.  That is, they produced salts during combustion that will directly, and immediately attack the surface of the gun and brass.  Substitute powder residue must be cleaned soon after shooting from both the guns and brass, or else corrosion follows use.

Black powder is not corrosive and one can be more relaxed in policing it than with substitutes.

The ONLY hitch to using black powder is having a properly lubricated bullet.  Shotguns are run the same with black or smokeless.  Black is actually easier to clean from a shotgun than smokeless loads.

However, I've never shot black in a '97 and wouldn't think of doing so.

[Tuolumne Lawman]

I shot real black in CAS for 8 years, so I do know about black,  I switched to Triple 7 for the next 4 or 5. Triple 7 is way easier than black black powder.  It never corroded steel. Windex or Ballistol/water easily wipes it down, since there is no fouling or lube/fouling goo.  Triple 7 can be hard on brass if you do not rinse it.  I throw it in an empty milk jug, add water and shake, then rinse again.  I seldom even bother to tumble it.

[Fairshake]

Dear Sir, I have been shooting BP since 1970 in C&B and Hawken 50 cal Rifles. I joined SASS about 5 years ago and started shooting Frontier Cartridge class.
I purchased a TNN from a dealer for EMF who was the importer at the time and had Walt Johnson working for them who is the man who started the making of the gun. It arrived with bad chambers and after contacting EMF they advised me to send the gun to their gunsmith who resides in your state.
I contacted the gunsmith and advised him that I was sending the gun and that I only shoot BP, nothing else. I told him that I only shot the real black powder and no subs and wanted the gun checked with like ammo to make sure it would function when it was returned to me. He advised that was not a problem as he had a close friend who loaded BP ammo.
It was a few weeks later that he advised the gun was ready to be shipped to me and it worked fine.
When the gun arrived about 5-6 days after being shipped via UPS ground to me in Louisiana I opened the box and almost passed out from what I observed.
I sent the complete set of pictures to EMF and they fired the gunsmith and sent me a new shotgun which was perfect.
They notified me that the gunsmith had test fired the shotgun with Pyrodex shells.
I shoot my shotgun with real BP at least three matches a month on Saturdays. Sometimes I wait until the following Tuesday or Wednesday to clean my guns. There is never a problem and all it takes is two or three passes with a bronze brush to expel the melted plastic from the wad. I then use a Boresnake sprayed with Ballistol and the barrels are like mirrors inside and out.
If you gave me 100 pounds of Pyrodex I would sell it to buy the real BP. I use Diamondback 2F which is $10 a pound plus Hazmat and shipping. Much cheaper than the stuff that will rust your gun into a piece of junk. Later David
If you can shoot SASS then you can run a boresnake down a barrel.
I've never heard of someone being too old to shoot BP. If that was true then many a old frontiersman died because he could not shoot game. IIRC Daniel Boone lived into his late eighties or early nineties.

[Tuolumne Lawman]

I never said I was too old....At this point in my life, I just have very little time, space, or energy to mess with loading and cleaning BP.  If you have the time and desire that is fine, and I applaud you.  Also, I used Pyrodex exclusively for my shotgun shells most of those 8 years and never had a problem.  Cleaned with a mixture of one third each of: Murphy's Oil Soap, Peroxide, and Alcohol. Moose milk works great, also.  BTW, cleaning the double shotgun is the easiest task of BP shooting, so that's not the issue.

[Fairshake]

Sir, That was the point I was trying to make. There is no problem with cleaning BP. I don't understand what you are referring to when you include space in your posting as the cleaning of any gun requires the same amount of space regardless of what is fired in it.
The cleaning of BP is no harder than any other powder and is easier than most.
My problem is not with you so please don't misconstrue what my message is about. It's not a personal attack as I don't know nor have I ever met with you.
I have always been a huge advocate of the firing of the real BP so that people now and in the future can see and feel what it was that our forefathers did in settling this great country.
When a neophyte reads the posting made by you, a very accomplished shooter and sees where you say that there is a problem with shooting the real black it gives them a false idea about it.
There were and are so many myths spread about BP that many people will not even buy a gun that it was fired in. I had two USFA's revolvers that I purchased from Longhunter for $850 each and wanted to sell them to purchase two 44-40's .
This SASS pard sent me several mails saying that he wanted them and did not even need pictures.
He then saw where I shoot BP and asked if they had been fired with it. My answer was of course yes. He replied back that he would not buy any gun that had been fired with BP. I offered him a complete refund if his gunsmith could find anything wrong and he would no longer even reply.
That is why I was trying to make my point about Pyrodex which can't be left uncleaned for a week but BP can.
You have a nice time shooting I hope you have a better idea about my message. Later David

[Cliff Fendley]

Pyrodex is WAY more corrosive than real PB, I once made the mistake of waiting over night from a hunt during muzzle loader season and the pyrodex rusted a Pietta Remington New Army really bad.

I've never had any rust issues using Triple 7 but only have used it for hunting in more modern stainless steel firearms.

What I do know for a fact is real BP is much easier to clean up than Triple 7 or Pyrodex. Pyrodex is just plain nasty and corrosive and Triple 7 leaves a very hard caked on gray layer that is much harder than BP residue.

If they had been using Pyrodex during the Civil War I don't believe there would be any of those old guns left today. They would have probably been rusted up hunks of iron before the next battle.

[The Swede]

Sir, That was the point I was trying to make. There is no problem with cleaning BP. I don't understand what you are referring to when you include space in your posting as the cleaning of any gun requires the same amount of space regardless of what is fired in it.
The cleaning of BP is no harder than any other powder and is easier than most.
My problem is not with you so please don't misconstrue what my message is about. It's not a personal attack as I don't know nor have I ever met with you.
I have always been a huge advocate of the firing of the real BP so that people now and in the future can see and feel what it was that our forefathers did in settling this great country.
When a neophyte reads the posting made by you, a very accomplished shooter and sees where you say that there is a problem with shooting the real black it gives them a false idea about it.
There were and are so many myths spread about BP that many people will not even buy a gun that it was fired in. I had two USFA's revolvers that I purchased from Longhunter for $850 each and wanted to sell them to purchase two 44-40's .
This SASS pard sent me several mails saying that he wanted them and did not even need pictures.
He then saw where I shoot BP and asked if they had been fired with it. My answer was of course yes. He replied back that he would not buy any gun that had been fired with BP. I offered him a complete refund if his gunsmith could find anything wrong and he would no longer even reply.
That is why I was trying to make my point about Pyrodex which can't be left uncleaned for a week but BP can.
You have a nice time shooting I hope you have a better idea about my message. Later David

I would have to agree with you about the misinformation part. Up here in Canada most of the people I shoot with have these misconceptions about black powder. It is hard to clean (not at all!), it is corrosive (fouling is hydroscopic, so the moisture the problem), etc., etc..
On this forum I have found a more positive outlook on black powder, and correct information about it as well. As I said most of those I shoot with are afraid of BP.
Anyway, I have shot 777, but not Pyrodex (doubt if I ever will). All 777 did was make me want to shoot more BP.
Bottom line for me is that BP is more fun to shoot, and it takes no extra time for me to reload it, or clean up the guns after shooting.

That being said... it comes down to personal choice in the end.

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Howdy!

I live ... and shoot ... in mid Indiana.  Sunday, was our monthly shoot.  It was about 65-70 degrees, winds were gusting at about 3-8 MPH, the humidity was around 60% and I shot about 90 rounds - ALL loaded with Pyrodex, from my new Open Top and my 1866 rifle.

I did not clean them as soon as I got home, otr did I clean them on Monday.  Or Tuesday.  I did finally clean them Wednesday afternoon.  They were not one iota harder to clean than when I use Goex, which is the vast majority of the time.  No damage occurred to my guns by waiting to clean.  I DO use a lot of Moosemilk (Ballistol + H2O @ 7-1 ratio) and both guns had been misted over at the range.  NO borebrushing or serious wiping until Wed. afternoon.  This is the same procedure I do with Goex.  Perhaps my "misting" caused the Pyrodex to cease-&-desist its nastiness.

I've shot dozens of pounds of Pyrodex since I started shooting BP in the mid '70s with my ONLY complaint being thet Pyrodex is harder to ignite in C&B guns than BP.  No problem in a cartridge, but C&B, yep.

I'm NOT saying you guys are WRONG, just pointing out what I do and that I don't find P-dex to be the nasty stuff many others do.

As said by the Swede:  "... it comes down to personal choice in the end." 

[Tuolumne Lawman]

To me, Triple 7 is way easier to clean.  A shot of Windex or 1/3 Alcohol, 1/3 Murphy's and 1/3 peroxide, and the  grey film disappears. Shake the brass in water then give a second rinse.

[pony express]

I used to use a lot of 777 when I was shooting Frontiersman, in my '66 carbine.The reason I used it was-because I could use it with the ordinary modern lubed bullets I hasd on hand. Always started checking in at Wal Mart after deer season, they used to start marking it down for clearance. I still have several cans stashed away I got for $12-15. I used all three powders at every match, 777 in the rifle, BP in the C&B pistols, and pyrodex(also from clearance at WalMart) for the shotgun. Pistols didn't like Pyrodex, shotgun didn't care and it was cheapest powder of the three.

As for the origional question, I've never bought any 777 other than the clearance at WM, and they don't seem to discount it much anymore. I guess they figured out it won't spoil.

[hellgate]

Although I love BP in the SXS & C&Bs I couldn't get real accurate loads that didn't foul the barrels on my rifles (.357s) with real gunpowder so I went to every sub there was I could find (Black Canyon, Black Mag, CleaRshot, CleaNshot, & APP). They all worked fine with any bullet and lube which is nice. The 777 is definitely more power for the same volume which I like and cleans as easily as the other subs. I pay around $22/lb around here for the T7. I consider Pyrodex the same as BP: same BOOM, needs BP lube, fouls like BP, cheaper, so it goes into the shotgun.

[Fairshake]

Steel Horse, The spraying of the Ballistol at the range was the first step to cleaning so you did start the process and stop the corrosion of the Pyrodex.
If you want to shoot 100 tons of Pyrodex then that is your choice in this free land we live in.
If you think it's the same as BP then I will have to disagree with you on many facts between the two.
Take your very nice guns to your next match and shoot one with nothing but Pyrodex and the other with a good BP. Don't spray either one with anything at all and that includes Moosemilk.
Wait 7 days and post what your guns look like.
Your posting that more or less disputed what myself and others had said about Pyrodex and the real BP was wrong. But your own posting was misleading and not anywhere near a true test.
When you sprayed the guns down with the Moosemilk you stopped all possible corrosion from starting so your findings were very incorrect.
How about trying it my way if you want to see and be fair about it.
I have nothing against anyone and for sure a person I've never met to get into any p-----match.
I have shot the real BP since 1970 and I was working in a gun store when the salesman came in with the first cans of Pyrodex for us to sell. The first words out of his mouth was to not delay in cleaning the gun as it would rust.
To be quite honest they have many forum members who say they are shooting BP and you then find out they shoot Pyrodex. I feel this is why many shooters have seen rusted guns and believe it was the fault of the real BP.
Just as my OP stated, the gunsmith told me he had a friend who shot BP and he would load the test shells for me. If he would have said the shells were Pyrodex, I would have instructed him to not fire them in my gun!!
If you think my pictures are fakes then shoot and don't clean your shotgun and see what it looks like. Later David

[Cuts Crooked]

Ease up gents, or I will step in.

[Tuolumne Lawman]

Ease up gents, or I will step in.

It is sounding a little SASS wire-ish... All I asked was who had the best price on Triple 7