Bota question.

[John William McCandles]

Are the offerings from Earth Walker close to period?

[James Hunt]

Do you mean EarthWalker boots out of Arizona? Wow, sorry but I think their stuff looks like it belongs more on a babe in Aspen whose holding a latte and downing a couple of scones. If my mare caught me walking towards her wearing something like that she'd be rolling in the dirt laughing. Actually we used to have a guy in our mounted shooting club that wore a pair - we called it diversity. Maybe I got the wrong EarthWalker.

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Hi

I bought a pattern for botas (or breed leggings) as they were called up North ... they were part of a leather accessories pattern group from the Possibles Shop ... scroll down on this page until you reach almost the bottom ... the pattern is called 'Frontiersman's Leather Accoutremont Pattern'.

http://possibleshop.com/pattern-men-ev.html

One of our leathermakers has been going to make me a pair for almost two years ... and the pattern is a backup plan if he doesn't ... he swears he is going to .... but almost two years is a long time to wait .... sigh

[Mogorilla]

Hey JWM,
Here are a pair I made.  Search the leather forum for Chuck Burrows and Botas, he has a pattern or two there and there are several examples.   I got all of this at Tandy leather, think it set me about about $45/50, total and that is probably on the high side.    I had not chimed in as I was not sure whether they were PC or not, but I was about 95% they were not.

[Tascosa Joe]

Earth Walkers: hmmmmmmm YGBSM!  Bota's go back in the Southwest to at least the early 1800's.  What Earth Walkers sell is not even a close cousin to the early bota's.  Mogorilla's are a good period style.

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Hi,

Here is the link to a pair of Chuck Burrow's Botas ....

http://www.wrtcleather.com/Year_in_Retrospect_2010/slides/Botas%2010-2.html

[James Hunt]

If you are concerned about PC then I'd be a little careful about using nickel silver concho's with the slots for leather laces. I haven't seen that on much until around the turn of the century. If you are going to decorate your bota's or half leggings you have to ask yourself who you are and where you are from. I am not that familiar with mexican or californio decorations, surely they used silver and I believe cutouts with decorative wool beneath, but plains use particularly in the north don't really show that. Below are a pair of Metis half leggings that are described as circa 1900 I believe, but would represent that influenced by Eastern native culture, note the floral bead work. When in doubt don't decorate them at all. After all these were intended for utilitarian use - largely to keep cloth pants clean. Sorry to take the cool out of it, but PC was mentioned.

[Major 2]

I was fortunate to see and handle a pair at Jefferson Berricks,
These were in the collection of personal items of a Dragoon corporal, serving circa 1848.

Allowed to pull the pattern, I have worn these for some years ....mine are Mule Deer as were the orginials.

They are very simple made and I will have & wear mine at the NCOW Convention in March.

If you would like, you may pull the pattern off of mine, you will need a large sheet of craft paper to trace them...

if I get a chance I'll make a few patterns

[John William McCandles]

Didn't think that they were close, just saw a pair on one of the other boards a shooter was selling.
I have the pattern and plan on making a pair for the NCOWS Nationals. Just have to get upto Tandy to pick some leather up.

Thanks
JW

[John William McCandles]

I was fortunate to see and handle a pair at Jefferson Berricks,
These were in the collection of personal items of a Dragoon corporal, serving circa 1848.

Allowed to pull the pattern, I have worn these for some years ....mine are Mule Deer as were the orginials.

They are very simple made and I will have & wear mine at the NCOW Convention in March.

If you would like, you may pull the pattern off of mine, you will need a large sheet of craft paper to trace them...

if I get a chance I'll make a few patterns

Major, that would be great, see you a the convention.
JW

[Justician]

Does anyone have a picture of someone wearing botas? When I Googled bota it I got pictures of wine skins.

Justician

[James Hunt]

Here are a few floating around out there, circa 1855 - 1890:











Note the lack of metal ornamentation, often plain, or with beaded decoration.

[ChuckBurrows]

If you are concerned about PC then I'd be a little careful about using nickel silver concho's with the slots for leather laces. I haven't seen that on much until around the turn of the century. If you are going to decorate yourbotass or half leggings you have to ask yourself who you are and where you are from. I am not that familiar withMexicann or californio decorations, surely they used silver and I believe cutouts with decorative wool beneath, but plains use particularly in the north don't really show that. Below are a pair of Metis half leggings that are described as circa 1900 I believe, but would represent that influenced by Eastern native culture, note the floral bead work. When in doubt don't decorate them at all. After all these were intended for utilitarian use - largely to keep cloth pants clean. Sorry to take the cool out of it, but PC was mentioned.

1) Nickel silver was used extensively for conchos in the Southwest starting in the 1830's. The majorty of hair plate conchos were made of German silver and not real silver. These were commonly worn by Kiowa, Shoshone, and Comanche  - AJ Miller shows them a lot in his images from 1837 and later.  Navajo, Hopi, Mexican, and other silver conchos were also used for deco, but if you want to be really PC when using real silver for SW work, then one should use Mexican coin silver (about 70-85% silver and not Sterling which is 92.5%) which was the most common source of silver used by the Navajo, etc. Such Indian made silver work starts becoming more widely used by the early 1850's. Even in the north at times metal was used to decorate botas – Alexander Henry's botas from the pre-1840 era use metal shoe buttons as both closure and deco along with a pre-1840 era combination of geometric and floral beadwork.
2) The metal work on the botas in the link posted by Wadd Watson are PC for their time and place which is a Wild West show member of the 1890's – not a plainsmen of the 1850-60's. They are in fact based on a pair of original botas from that period in a private collection here in the SW I have access to – unfortunately for most folks there are tons of original items that have never been published and probably never will.
German silver was used in this case in place of real silver for cost purposes – real silver conchos and/or spots would have added considerably to the cost – exactly the reason that GS was developed in Europe in the early 1800's.  Despite "common knowledge" often touted even by good researchers, conchos (including slotted ones) and spots were being used as deco here in the SW long before the turn of the century  – one great example:  Geronimo's gun rig, taken from a Mexican and highly decorated with silver conchos and spots dates to the late 1870's very early 1880's (it was taken from the Yawner in 1881) - it can be seen here:
http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php?topic=36244.0

3) Plain due to utilitarian use? – yes and no - all depends on who, when, and where and IMO botas originally were worn as a less expensive version of boots - the full name botas de alas translates to winged boots - only later were they adopted by the gentry and worn as an accessory. Keeping cloth pants clean - partly, but pants outside of boots tends to be a later style yet botas were often worn over boots as well as with moccasins. In the SW, where they originated, they were worn as protection from brush, catis, etc. BTW - Botas can be documented in California at least to the 1780's.
Just like most "cowboy" gear the more heavily Indian and/or Spanish influenced gear is often heavily decorated, even their utilitarian gear (the old saw about a $40.00 saddle on a $10.00 horse still holds true amongst most of the working hands I know personally, most of whom wear/use the often highly decorated buckaroo styles of the Spanish West - utilitarian = plain is more of a 20th/21st Century re-enactors concept, not necessarily an historical one - again it's who, when, and where).
For fancy Californio styles of botas, see the works of artist Joseph Walker, for a fancy pair of Southern Metis (plenty of them moved south in the early 1800's) take a look at Tom Tobin's from circa 1880's or for Central Plains style those worn by Little Bat Garnier in the image posted above.
As for the Metis leggins circa 1900 posted above – very nice work, but that particular style of floral beadwork is very late 19th/early 20th Century and thus would not be PC for earlier periods. Floral beadwork styles changed (often subtly) over time and per tribe so one needs to research in depth to understand  the differences - to the uninitiated eye they may look the same, but the differences are there once you understand them. For a couple of pairs of fancier beaded botas with correct beadwork from an earlier era see the Museum of the Fur Trade Sketchbooks - not sure if it's the Mtn Man 1 or 2 or the Scouts and buffalo hunters.
Then there is this style of deco used by the Spanish/Mexicans:

Unfortunately that particular style of deco is done by using large heated brass plates and in this case on BT buckskin, not something easily or cheaply produced...

re: the Earthwalker's chaps - while a modernized version they are not as far fetched as some implied. There are late 19th century California style leggings (a version of botas that comes up over the knee and usually with a series of closures up the leg) that are similar and just as fancy - David Stoecklin's book Cowboy Gear includes a pair.

As for taking the cool out of it in order to be PC? Sorry but having fancy gear no matter the era is just simply a matter of picking an impression that would have used such gear, and such an impression is easily documented. IMO Common = plain = utilitarian is a modern day (post 1980 - mainly courtesy of Alan Gutchess and other 18th Century re-enactors ) "white man" re-enactors  concept, not necessarily an historical one. REAL history includes the uncommon as well as the common - of course if you're a pro or doing Living History as a docent or in another capacity for the publics than yep follow their rules (right or wrong), but if you are doing this for your own fun or edification, than fancy/uncommon can be just as PC and as well documented. IMO again who, when, and where should be the main deciding factors, for what you use/wear.

BTW - the wool cutout deco is an Apache style, the Jicarillas in particular- I have seen it used on coats (Tom Tobin and Kit Carsonb) and bags (lots of extant Apaches saddebags) but have never seen botas decorated in that style and IMO it would not be a good method due to inherent wear problems, especially in brush country.

[St. George]

Thanks again, Chuck - always a pleasure to have your knowledge shared.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[James Hunt]

Chuck: Your reputation proceeds you and I found your post fascinating. I would make the following points:

1. I have always wondered the origin and onset of common use of what we call today string conchos meant to secure the saddle string. To me they don't seem to appear commonly until the late 19th century. Prior, the strings were secured by a leather rosette. I have one known image of a saddle dated 1870's with what appear to be string concha's made of brass, and maybe an image of a Mexican saddle dated 1860. It is hard to tell from an image regarding the later, some Mexican saddles I have seen do have a metal concho on top of rosettes, but they have a round hole which is secured by a large knot in the saddle string. By the 1890's you begin to see a more common use of string conchos, and after 1900 they are all over the place. I am curious if you have documentation for common use prior to 1870 on either saddle or clothing? I can find none. I have found none on clothing.

I see a common use of button conchos, spots, and tacks amongst natives and Spanish peoples. I know little of early 19th century use in the southwest and Mexican border, but use in the north of these decorations seemed rather limited when compared to the heavily tacked and decorated stuff of the reservation, wild west show period. I find Miller's work very interesting representing the 1838 rendezvous, but I often stare at his drawings wondering what the heck those things are on pantaloons or whatever. It is hard to discern what he is representing without some serious conjecture. At least for me.

2. As to common versus uncommon and the use of fancy gear - your point is well taken. Uncommon can be PC, yet it is still uncommonly PC. Nothing wrong with it, but a scout traveling the northern plains in vaquero dress was a singular event and while PC I would find myself uncomfortable portraying such. Particularly when people tend to look at you and say - wow, is that how it really was? I understand that both I and my horse are fatter than the period (I keep telling the horse to go on a diet) but that aside, I feel sort of a responsibility to represent what would normally be seen in history if I suggest that I am portraying history. However, if you are portraying Buffalo Bill the above would be correct. But that is my fun, others may differ on that and that is fine, though the word PC to me rather implies what was most frequently seen.

3. Ha, as to your point of the "common" phenomenon being post 1980 18th century stitch counters - I plead guilty. There has been a push in that community to do exactly that and I now prowl the woods in the walnut brigade, unrepentant frontier trash. Like many I started as a "free trapper" with orange leather, a Hawken gun, and some dandy blue enamelware. But I have enjoyed the trip to a more historically accurate persona that now includes the last half of the 19th century.

4. I am not sure I concur with your inside the boot comment being a late style change. Plenty of that in the early 19th century, both civilian and military.

5. Found your point regarding the use of cutouts and wool for a SW bota informative and I stand corrected. Although not sure it would have anything to do with impaired use in the environment, half leggings are shown using worsted material for borders, would they not suffer the same fate as cut outs?

6. You know I have looked at those half leggins in "Cowboy Culture" for quite a few years and wondered how it was done, good information.

7. I guess I am one that implied the earthwalker boots or whatever they are called are "farfetched" so after your comment I went again to their sight - wow, using my most multicultural mind set I fail to see anything that would suggest even a remote suggestion of historical origin. They'd look good on rodeo drive while carrying your Am Ex black card though. 

Best Regards, Jim (who is looking awfully plain when standing next to your extraordinary stuff.)

PS: Am seriously interested on any primary documentation you have for the onset of use of string conchos on saddles. I just can not document their common use much prior to the 1880's.

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Hi,

I have listened to the discussion of my 'betters' with great interest, for my personna is that of a mid 19th century Ranchero owner in ALta California and then just California  (when they became American Citizens).

James Walker was an Englishman who is known for his accurate painting of the Battles of Gettysburg in the Civil War and Chapultepec  in the Mexican-American War. But before he painted these, he painted a series of Californio Scenes ... one shows a very good detail of a Bota in his depiction of a 'bear fight' ( a sport among Landed Ranchero owners) ... of note is the Belduque worn with just its hilt riding above the Bota on the right thigh of the right foreground rider .....



My own Belduque, just waiting for the Botas to be made to put it on:



TTFN,

[James Hunt]

WWE: I have always enjoyed looking at the image you posted, and have wondered about that knife stuck in the fella's half leggings. I don't necessarily doubt that it was done (no less than buffalo bill is shown above with a knife in his leggings although we may assume that it was perhaps a prop given his theatrical flair) but rather have wondered how they secured it. I always thought it a rather dashing appearance. As an experiment I stuck a belduque I have in a pair of my leggins and walked around the house, the knife had about a 7 - 8 inch blade and was constantly repositioning itself much to my discomfort, and I was suspicious that used with out regard it would simply eventually fall out/off.  Because of this I never gave it a try on a horse. My experience with horses, particularly over rough ground and regardless if it is on you or the saddle, is if it isn't securely nailed down you've lost it. I would be interested in your experience, if this was done I want to say they may have secured the sheath in some way to their leg and not relied only on the legging string.

Ha, if I was roping grizzly bear I would think that most of my stuff including me would be spread across the landscape. These guy's were amazing horsemen. amongst the best in the world, they would spend the majority of their adult lives literally in a saddle. I suggest you get the DVD "Tapadero" (J&S Productions) for $20 on Amazon for your viewing pleasure. If you are not directly into horses, it will teach you a lot about the historical horse culture in California that continues to this day. The background music alone is great. Highly recommended - by me.

[WaddWatsonEllis]

James Hunt,

At the risk of sounding like a mutual admiration society, I always look forward to your posts ... I wish that I was a horse person ... if someone gave me a horse and saddle, I could not afford them here in CA. My senior payments would not handle the extra 3K/yr (and that is a very conservative estimate) of upkeep for a horse ...

So until someone lends me a horse (reality check here  ...*S*) , I  shall be riding shank's mare ...

But I have had the same questions; I had my Beduque made so that the sheath i(approximately 11 1/2" long) is about the length from my knee to my ankle, but until the Botas are made for me (and again I have been waiting nearly two years), I will not have a way of testing your ideas out.

The Belduque came with a smalll belt that was supposed to go against the upper metal band of the wooden holster and hold it to the leg ... but I am hoping that the belt built into the Botas will do the same thing ... but we shall see when I get them ...