Picked Up an 1886 in 40-82

[Buffler Razz]

I've been in the hunt for an 86 for a while, one that was affordable anyway. Persistence and patience finally paid off, especially since the latter is not one of my strong suits! Anyway, this one followed me home the other day. She is circa 1890 and given her age in pretty good shape. Bore has light pitting throughout but the rifling is good.

I need to slug the bore and get to ordering in some cases and dies. Would appreciate any experience you may have with loads and bullet choices. And YES she will only see the one true powder and not that new fad stuff.
Thanks!

[quigleysharps4570]

Will be looking forward to a shooting report.

[Long Knife Rich]

 Congrats on the new rifle. She sure is a looker! Keep us updated on how she shoots.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

I did a qiuck GOOGLE on reloading .40-82.  Lots of stuff, but a lot of wasted air along the way.  Good idea to slug the bore, as what I've read is that it is probably .406.  Cases can be made from .50-90  .45-90 cases, I think.  Look around, but I have found CH4D has a good price on the older and less popular rounds.

http://www.ch4d.com/catalog/dies   (click on "caliber list" & go to p 29)

DS40-82WIN price $116,  shellholder #47  

Corrected the case to convert, thanks Short Knife!

[Buffler Razz]

Sir Charles
Thanks for the info. I ran a host of searches too, and yes, quite a bit of wasted air. I also found a copy of Mike Venturino's Shooting Lever Guns of The Old West and have it on the way. NOt sure how much info is there, but he does have some space dedicated to both the rifle and caliber. Another source for supplies is BUffalo Arms, they list the brass and dies. But first, it is time to head out to the garage and drive some lead through the bore!

It will be a while, but I will certainly have a range report once I gather my goodies and make some smoke.
Thanks again.
Buffler Razz

[Short Knife Johnson]

Cases are made from .45-90 (or .45-2.6" to be more precise).  I happened into a twin to your rifle - even made the same year - much the way you must have.  Being in the right place at the right time and having the requisite amount of cash on hand. 

I used .45-90 Starline brass, annealed it before I started.  Necked the cases down over the course of three passes.  Annealed again after the 2nd pass.  The cases will then be about .050" too long, so also pick up a trimmer pilot in .40 cal. if you don't have one.

Pictures of mine are posted elsewhere on here, but I'll just put mine up here to so yours doesn't look so lonely.

[Dick Dastardly]

The 40-82 can be a very good long distance (1000 yard) performer.  I've seen single shot rifles in this caliber perform very well at Winnequah.  Good luck.

DD-MDA

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

The 40-82 can be a very good long distance (1000 yard) performer.  I've seen single shot rifles in this caliber perform very well at Winnequah.  Good luck.

DD-MDA

DD;  I believe that is a slight varation popularized with a couple of names, but with a .410 groove and tighter twist for 400grain + bullets.  The original Winchester round had the .406 dia. and a slow twist for a lighter "express" bullet.

[Short Knife Johnson]

There are a few versions.  The .40-82 WCF which is a bottleneck case and the original rifles have a twist rate to stabilize the lighter "Express" bullets.  I do believe it it meant as a more intermediate range round.  Both the 1885 High Wall and 1886 repeaters were so chambered.

The .40-82 Crossno is a straight taper case that begins from the rim and tapers down to .40 calibre at the case mouth.  The .40-82 Shiloh (I just got one of these this summer) has a straight section of about .300" and then begins a more agressive taper to .40 calibre at the mouth (the idea is a beefed up .40-65).  The latter two rounds generally have 1 turn in 16 inches for a rate of twist.  They are supposed to be very fine long distance .40 calibre rounds. 

All of them are made from .45-90 cases. 

[Buffler Razz]

Short Knife, thanks for the info. I slugged the bore and its coming up .407 so I am making ready to order up my components. Thanks for the tip on case length, I see that Lee will make up case length arbors to spec too. Thanks for posting pics of your 86, looks nice. How does she shoot?

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

According to my yellow and tattered copy of CARTRIDGES OF THE WORLD 3d ed., the factory bullet weighed 260 grains, with an MV of 1490 fps.  You will want to find a bullet close to this weight.

With the variations in case dimensions now current, make sure you find dies in the original .40-82 WINCHESTER.

BTW; Don't rebarrel (or otherwise fiddle with!) as according to the editor of COTW, rifles in the origional chambering are hard to find, and that opinion is over 30 years old.

[Short Knife Johnson]

Short Knife, thanks for the info. I slugged the bore and its coming up .407 so I am making ready to order up my components. Thanks for the tip on case length, I see that Lee will make up case length arbors to spec too. Thanks for posting pics of your 86, looks nice. How does she shoot?

That sounds about right for bore diameter.  Get a .408" size die.  I haven't had much chance to play with my '86 except to form brass.  Problem was the Goex load I cobbled together had too much torque and was stripping the bullets past the rifling.  Original velocities ran 1500 fps, and these were clocking 1750 to 1800.  I and using the Lyman offering for the round.  I can't recall the mould number offhand.  This spring I will try some Graf & Sons Fg rather than the Goex FFg in an effort to slow things down.  Perhaps see if I can get some Schuetzen to try. 

Original bullet alloy was 1 part tin to 16 parts lead.  I have a pile cast up from wheelweights.

[Trailrider]

I, too, would recommend a .408 bullet, but you need to see if they will chamber.  If not, you might need to size to .407 or even .406.  Since you are planning to stick with BP, you can probably go with a softer bullet, which will slug up on firing.

The twist rates in Winchester .40 caliber rifles varied all over the place, as they couldn't seem to decide what was best. However, most of the .40-82 WCF's were designed as "Express" rifles, and had relatively slow twists. As was posted and written in Cartridges of the World, the standard in the M1886 was a 260 grain lead alloy bullet or a 255 gr JFSP. MV was in the mid-1400's. I don't believe they made HiVelocity (smokeless) loads in .40-82 WCF, whereas the .40-65 WCF was marketed later with smokeless HV loadings.  The '86 will handle about anything reasonable.

One thing about forming the brass from .45-2-3/4" Basic brass, you need to check whether your form dies will size the case close enough to the base to begin the straight taper.  I have formed .40-65 brass from .45-70 and had to use a .40-82 sizer and press the cases all the way into the die in a vise, then drive the case out with a steel rod to get the taper to start in front of the rim.  Only had to do it once per case forming. Once done, the regular sizing die would reform the brass after firing.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

One thing about forming the brass from .45-2-3/4" Basic brass, you need to check whether your form dies will size the case close enough to the base to begin the straight taper.  I have formed .40-65 brass from .45-70 and had to use a .40-82 sizer and press the cases all the way into the die in a vise, then drive the case out with a steel rod to get the taper to start in front of the rim.  Only had to do it once per case forming. Once done, the regular sizing die would reform the brass after firing.

I had that problem when forming .40-65 for my Browning BPCR.  Based on a tip in HANDLOADER, I believe, I resorted to R-P brass in .45-70 as it had a slightly smaller base diameter.  It worked. Now I use FC for my BLR/SRC, W-W for the Pedersoli Sharps, and reform all the R-Ps to .40-65.

[JimBob]

The old Lyman/Ideal mould number for the .40-82 is 406150.Be aware that you have OAL limitations on loaded cartridges for the 86.Heavier bullets have to be seated deeper in the case to feed.Single shots are not handicapped by those limitations and can use much heavier bullets.Most of the new crop of .40 cal rifles are .408 diameter,the old ones were,depending on the manufacturer .403 or .406,Winchester used .406.

[Buffler Razz]

Thanks for all of the tips and info. I am not set up for casting, and have too many other bad habits to add another. I've been looking at an offering from Buffalo Arms on a 260 grain .408 dia bullet, 20-1 w/ SPG lube and a gas check. Do you think the gas check will be ok? I'm a noob at this, thus my question.
Thanks!
Buffler Razz

[Wills Point Pete]

 I suggest that if you don't tell the rifle about the gas check it won't care. If anything it may make the rifle's barrel more forgiving of it's roughness.

[Buffler Razz]

Thanks WPP! I did a little reading up on them, now understand their purpose. My goodies are on the way and can get to loading and shooting real soon!
Buffler Razz