Square Toed Boots

[Cobra]

Your pic is  not the 87 issue boot Hopalong!!  the knee flap is different! and also the rear join is covererd by a taperd peice of leather. and the heels are only 1 1/4  high.        cob

[Cobra]

Its the knee flap deisign on those boots , thats sets it apart from the rest. its basicly a staight top boot with a small peice cut out the back.

[G.W. Strong]

Your pic is  not the 87 issue boot Hopalong!!  the knee flap is different! and also the rear join is covererd by a taperd peice of leather. and the heels are only 1 1/4  high.        cob

Its the knee flap deisign on those boots , thats sets it apart from the rest. its basicly a staight top boot with a small peice cut out the back.

Cobra, I respectfully submit that you are mistaken.
We know that the 1884 boots were issued with the rear seam turned inward. This rubbed soldiers raw so the boots were modified in 1887 with an outward turned seam covered with a piece of leather.  

After checking the quartermaster regulations of April 24th 1884 (Specification no. 110) we find discussions of the weight and type of leather, number of stitches to the inch, and sizing requirements. We also find a drawing of the specifications. I have included the original quartermaster drawing below because it illustrates a boot exactly of the sort I posted above without the rear seam covering piece of 1887.

The regulations were amended (Specification no. 182) on March 14th, 1887. This regulation again specifies of the weight and type of leather, number of stitches to the inch, and sizing requirements, etc. The only significant change is, "Back seam to be covered with a strip of the same material as leg, to measure one (1) inch in width at top and two (2) inches in width at counter."

Now go back and take a look at your picture from eBay. Your seam cover is approximately four inches where it covers the counter (or quarter) Look at my picture from McChristian. You can see seam cover is approximately 1" at the top and about 2" at the bottom.  The other thing you will notice is the eBay picture you have provided does not have a front seam. The regulations of 1884 and 1887 both specify a lapped seam running up the front utilizing a "lap seam in front; to be stitched with three (3) rows of stitching, ten (10) stitches to the inch; the upper stitching to be of heavy silk thread, the under stitching to be of best quality linen thread."  

[Cobra]

The last pic i posted , are orignal 85 boots hopalong! from cowans auctions, inot repros , if your going make some boots, there the ones to go by.

[Cobra]

This is the way to go hopalong , the 87 boots from civil war boots, the owner tom is a member on here , get a pair of these then you will no ,there right!  im going to.

[G.W. Strong]

The pics you just posted are correct. They look quite well made. Notice how the tops follow the patter of the ones I posted from mcChristian and differ from what you described in an earlier post.   The eBay ones you posted are not correct as stated above.  The little one you posted from Cowan's is probably great but the pic you posted is so small as to lack any detail.

I would love to know more about the '85 boots you reference. There are regs for boots of this sort from '76, '84, and '87. I cannot find any '85 regs. Can you post them or provide more info?

[cpt dan blodgett]

I have been wearing boots built by the Sanchez family for  more than twenty years actually closer to thirty years now. They were known as the Chanmpion Boot co. in El Paso . But now their son Joey has  taken over the boot business and expanded it and it is known now as Caboots
or Champion Attitude boots.
They have made me everything from dress/uniform boots to working bukaroo boots to packers and every pair fit like a glove and wore like steel. I even wore the tall high top boots when I had to help gather cattle during the big flood of 91 and wound up swimming our horses  in the Red River. After it was over  I just laid back and drained out the water and kept going until everthing got dry.
In 2001 i called Joey and had him make me a pair of  stove top cavalry boots. i was on my way to perform at the Cowby gathering in Las Cruces and told him i'd pick the boots up when I got to El aso.
When I got there he had the boots waiting and I'm still wearing them though they've been resoled and heeled .
They make ready made boots and custom fikts and the prces are reasonable if yu take into acount that the boots fit  like a new sock and feel like it too.I can wear my boots with no socks and they feel like a moccasin. Pretty good for a cowboy boot. plus although they run about $475 a pair if yu figure how long they last it works out to less than a pair of good athletic shoes.
I know other boots are as good and maybe cheaper but these are worth looking at if you wear boots .Just my two cents worth.

Actually visited the CA Boots place in El Paso, was going to have him custom make me a pair of Infantry Officers boots, cav like boots only slightly shorter.  He had me try on an off the rack pair totally "not my size" but fit,  I think I am a 10 Narrow, his 8.5 EE fit for length and width.  saved $200 over the custom boots listed in his web site.  I did have him reproduce my circa 1971 Nacona boots I was married in (40 years and and the same number of extra pounds made them at least a size too small).
Am very happy with them.  Great boots pretty expensive but when one considers I was making $2 per hour I had to work a whole lot more hours to buy the $90 Naconas than Joey's remakes at todays hourly rate.

[liten]

hey hopalong thw only info on the 1885 you can iget is the pic that  mr cobra sent you! ,  there was a outfit called cavalry regimental supplys , who did make the 1885 boots, but they have closed, if you want to any more info , you will have to visit museums, or find a clollector of military boots, and dont bother looking in the 85  regulations , they are not there.    AMEN

[G.W. Strong]

hey hopalong thw only info on the 1885 you can iget is the pic that  mr cobra sent you! ,  there was a outfit called cavalry regimental supplys , who did make the 1885 boots, but they have closed, if you want to any more info , you will have to visit museums, or find a clollector of military boots, and dont bother looking in the 85  regulations , they are not there.    AMEN

What makes them an '85 boot then? If they were never adopted by the military why do you use a military nomenclature?

On another note, aren't you (liten) and cobra the same person? Why the double persona?

[liten]

 huh   what are on about  hop!  have you got jim beam in yr canteen again 

[G.W. Strong]

huh   what are on about  hop!  have you got jim beam in yr canteen again 

I prefer single malt scotch. 

But aren't you (liten) and cobra the same person? I notice you did not say no.

[liten]

water!!!  in canteens only hopalong

[G.W. Strong]

Why change the posts?

Original:

no!! im not cobra!!!!,  dont  no  what makes ya think that,  i, i would do sum deleting if i was you , before he comes back 

Modified:

water!!!  in canteens only hopalong

[ChuckBurrows]

They are 3 piece instead of 2 piece which is not correct to the period...
T-Joe

As noted 3 piece (actually 4 piece) boots with a separate vamp are PC - see here for more info - they date back to the early 1800's.
http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=8944.15

And here's a pic of Wild Ben Raymond of Leadville, CO circa 1879 with vamped boots
http://api.ning.com/files/SzDm6j9dfSDW6m4P2xfkaq3melFHGRRTfYjrDlR7Sgtt3LBGTO2vftDoqH*8AGpsZRpyQHvpLUFTrGRG4Sm0cNBxSJw-sRhO/WildBenRaymond.jpg

It's a bit fuzzy but the vamp can be seen on both boots if you look close - in fact vamped boots (actually most are a 4 part boot - front vamp, heel counter, and two piece top) were more expensive than the two or three piece boots (three piece being those with an added piece to the top, usually front)

[Shotgun Steve]

I had Brain at Snow Creek Boots make me a pair of boots 2 years ago and they came out great.
They are not cheap but they are authentic. Check them out.
Mine are like the boots in the third picture top row.

http://www.snowcreekboots.com/Default.aspx?tabid=300

[Tuolumne Lawman]

If I recall correctly from a European History class in college, square toed boots originated in 18th century Europe.  They made boots that both right and left foot were the same, and the toes were squared so they fit the toes on either foot.  If you lost a "right boot", just grab another one the same size, since there was no right or left.  It simplified supply chain to simply size, not left or right.

[HogDoc Olliday]

Harness boots, a perfect way to uglify an already homely boot.  To my eye a nice looking pair of boots would be the tall, round toed cavalry boots, no mule ears, no extensions to protect the knee, no elasticised gussets on the shaft and just plain soft (calfskin?) high polished leather without the fancy stitching. I wish that I could find a pair that I wouldn't have to sell my soul to buy.

Just bought a pair of boots that fit your desired description. They are a pair of Boulet Stove Pipe Boots from Wild West Mercantile.

See: http://www.wwmerc.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?item=BW-9003&type=store&category=20160#

[Storm Crow]

This statement is ALL GOOD for those with "little feet" {NOT to be confused with the Band Little Feet}.....  Absolutely nothing is good for us fellas with 13 DD or E stompers...  Square toes and short uppers for me unless there are some kind of lacing (LOL...  zipper,,, )!!!

Yeti

My size is 12 EEEE, so it's next impossible to find shoes that fit, let alone period boots that won't kill my feet after standing all day.  I'm still looking, though.

Here is the web address for the  Fort Western Style boot ... and it is SO comfortable that I bought a second pair in the brown ...

That link is down, but I found them.  I'll defiantly keep them in mind.  I wonder if the 12EE will work.  Damn my feet!

Storm Crow

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Hi,

These are not exactly square toed, but they were designed for SASS and are extremly comfy ...

http://www.fortwestern.com/fort-frontier-mens-rock-creek-frontier-range-boots/p/412293/

I really like mine ....

TTFN,

[HogDoc Olliday]

Good selection from Wild West Mercantile

http://www.wwmerc.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=7100&orderby=INVENTORY.hot%20desc,%20INVENTORY.brand,%20INVENTORY.model&template=&templatehead=&templatebody=&templatefoot=&templatethumb=&&start=6