Pick your shot competition idea

Camille Eonich · January 22, 2012, 02:02:55 PM

Two-Step, as has been explained, some thing very similar to what the OP described already takes place in SASS in the form of side matches. Side matches are generally reserved for larger, annual matches because most of the time people just don't want to fool with them on a weekly or monthly basis.

SASS matches used to incorporate some "house" guns in matches but as it grew the practice of doing so was mostly stopped because SASS draws such a crowd of diverse shooters and it was more or less determined that people attempting to shoot firearms that they were not familiar with in the atmosphere of a competition wasn't always a safe thing to do. Not to mention that it gave people with a more well rounded back ground in firearms a competitive advantage.

Now you're bringing up "top gun" matches and "top gun" formats and there has been no description offered for those at all so I really can't tell you if something like that has been done or even is being done in SASS or not.

Pettifogger · January 22, 2012, 03:32:49 PM

Quote from: Camille Eonich on January 22, 2012, 02:02:55 PM
Two-Step, as has been explained, some thing very similar to what the OP described already takes place in SASS in the form of side matches. Side matches are generally reserved for larger, annual matches because most of the time people just don't want to fool with them on a weekly or monthly basis.

SASS matches used to incorporate some "house" guns in matches but as it grew the practice of doing so was mostly stopped because SASS draws such a crowd of diverse shooters and it was more or less determined that people attempting to shoot firearms that they were not familiar with in the atmosphere of a competition wasn't always a safe thing to do. Not to mention that it gave people with a more well rounded back ground in firearms a competitive advantage.

Now you're bringing up "top gun" matches and "top gun" formats and there has been no description offered for those at all so I really can't tell you if something like that has been done or even is being done in SASS or not.

A Top Gun format at anything other than a small club shoot would simply take to long and given the skill level of a lot of shooters might even be dangerous. What most big matches have is a shoot-off (Sweet 16 etc.). They are man-on-man and woman-on-woman and frequently wind up with the top man shooting against the top lady for "top shot."

Tall Dark Slim · January 22, 2012, 05:13:50 PM

Two Step,
You've got a great idea. In order to use the facilities to put on your idea you'll probably have to invest some time getting to know the local club and helping out.

Camille,
To deny that an advantage is gained by being well rounded in firearms is impossible. However, in a shooting competition, those dedicated to the craft should be held above the rest. How better do we become more skilled shooters than by testing ourselves for weaknesses and then improving upon them? In reality when we step up to the firing line and await the buzzer we are all warriors testing ourselves. Some of us battle ourselves, while others battle against a better shooter. No matter the approach someone wins and someone loses. For clarification I'm not intending to be contrary and argumentative. Just a respectful debate.

Camille Eonich · January 22, 2012, 07:25:59 PM

Quote from: Tall Dark Slim on January 22, 2012, 05:13:50 PM

Camille,
To deny that an advantage is gained by being well rounded in firearms is impossible. However, in a shooting competition, those dedicated to the craft should be held above the rest. How better do we become more skilled shooters than by testing ourselves for weaknesses and then improving upon them? In reality when we step up to the firing line and await the buzzer we are all warriors testing ourselves. Some of us battle ourselves, while others battle against a better shooter. No matter the approach someone wins and someone loses. For clarification I'm not intending to be contrary and argumentative. Just a respectful debate.

I agree. Although, many SASS shooters have been wooed into the sport by the costumes and the the social aspects of the game. Many, many of them never shot a gun before shooting cowboy guns and have never shot anything other than cowboy guns. I would argue that many of us are not warriors stepping up to the battle to test ourselves but grandmothers, grandchildren, school teachers, day care workers and so on.

Believe it or not though, those just mentioned may have the most difficulty with shooting firearms they are unfamiliar with but they generally have the least amount of gripe with shooting "house" guns. Go figure...

Pettifogger, one of our local clubs, every now and then, does mano y mano either before or after the a match...every now and then. If that's what Two-Step was talking about then almost every state championship, regional, national and world event winds down with a top gun shootout.

Marshal Deadwood · January 22, 2012, 07:47:04 PM

I'm so far away from being a 'top gun' I aint sure I even know one ! LOL

We did have our monthly 'Cowboy Fast Draw' competition today. Only seven people came out but we had a really good time,,,,,,,,mostly shot the bull.

But hey,,I'm really diggin' Cowboy Fast Draw....didn't think I would but I am HOOKED now. Nothing like Colts at HIGH SPEED !

Deadwood * cold molasses posse

Tall Dark Slim · January 22, 2012, 09:24:47 PM

Quote from: Camille Eonich on January 22, 2012, 07:25:59 PM

I agree. Although, many SASS shooters have been wooed into the sport by the costumes and the the social aspects of the game. Many, many of them never shot a gun before shooting cowboy guns and have never shot anything other than cowboy guns. I would argue that many of us are not warriors stepping up to the battle to test ourselves but grandmothers, grandchildren, school teachers, day care workers and so on.

I contend that anyone who dresses up and stands on the line with a gun thinking at all about doing well or the best they can is a warrior. Someone who is not doing this is a not so great warrior that is still practicing a skill that could save the tribe. You're pretending to be a gunslinger or righteous shopkeeper or town posse member or heaven forbid a BAD GUY. It's good versus evil in costumes with real bullets. Come on, it's a form of confidence building that translates to real world offensive or defensive skill. It's not Yoga, it's shooting and shooters are confident people who take care of others. I'll bet you're confident that the skill you have developed in CAS could help you in a real world problem. See? Warrior.

Camille Eonich · January 22, 2012, 10:18:18 PM

I wasn't referring to myself.

I've been shooting since before I was 4 years old. Yes, seriously. In 4-H camp, the last day there was scheduled competition. They made me shoot with the boys.

Tall Dark Slim · January 23, 2012, 06:53:39 AM

I'm just kidding with ya please don't take me seriously. I shoot to win always whatever that entails and if that's not realistic then I shoot to achieve maximum efficiency.

Camille Eonich · January 23, 2012, 10:35:51 AM

NP.

However, to be clear what I was relating about house guns wasn't based on opinion I was simply stating some facts about the history of the game. My opinion, I liked a little diversity thrown in and didn't mind the house guns BUT I don't feel that's the time and the place for some people to be shooting certain types of guns for the first time. It got scary at times.

Some more history on SASS

When I started playing back in '03 the game had already "evolved" quite a bit. I wish that I had not missed that time prior to when I did start shooting. By the time that I same along it was highly unlikely that you would ever shoot from a prone position. It had been declared that it was too difficult for some to get up and down from there and even though concessions were always made for those people by then the idea had started that they weren't shooting the same game as everyone else.

One of the most fun matches that I have ever shot had you start lying behind a saddle that was in fact your horse that the Indians that you just saved your best friend from had shot out from under you. No actually I think that you started out dragging the dummy to the dead horse and shooting from there.

In '03 we were still doing odd things like throwing hats onto stands and getting bonus points if they actually hung there, throwing dynamite down the mine shaft and if it landed in the bucket you got bonus points. IMO at that point in time SASS was still a game more than a competition. The competition was secondary since it was all for bragging rights anyway.

Later it started changing. No one wanted the end results of the match based upon basically what was luck of the draw things. All fun stuff, my opinion again there, had to be done off the clock.

There used to be some really complicated stage writing that went on. Stage writers would take the time to write stories that went with the stage so you knew why you were shooting the way that you were. Then everyone started opting out of the stories and didn't want to take the time to read them.

Sometimes we would even have a stage sort of like the OP mentioned where you would have to shoot a stage duelist or gunfighter. Then it was declared that no one should ever be made to shoot outside their category and really again, it's not safe for some people to be forced to shoot with one had if they aren't comfortable doing so.

Anyway that's my short SASS history lesson. Hope it doesn't bore anyone too badly.

Tornado · January 24, 2012, 09:56:26 AM

Quote from: Tall Dark Slim on January 21, 2012, 10:58:07 PM
I'm not afraid of SASS, I was however unaware that I could foreswear the rifle that I do not really want to buy in the first place.

I didn't know that either. I have 2 revolvers, and don't really want to spend so much on that '66 I have been saving for. I would be much happyer buying more pistols. I'll check with the locals club to see if it ok first. Do many people do it this way?

Camille Eonich · January 24, 2012, 12:37:18 PM

Quote from: Tornado on January 24, 2012, 09:56:26 AM
Do many people do this way?

No but if you don't have a rifle yet certainly don't let that stop you from attending a match. Go in a spectate a few and talk to people. I would really be surprised if someone doesn't offer to loan you a rifle to shoot with.

Tornado · January 24, 2012, 02:55:26 PM

Quote from: Camille Eonich on January 24, 2012, 12:37:18 PM

No but if you don't have a rifle yet certainly don't let that stop you from attending a match. Go in a spectate a few and talk to people. I would really be surprised if someone doesn't offer to loan you a rifle to shoot with.

The club near me hasn't started yet, still in the planing stage. You are right, the head guy did already offer to loan his guns. I just have always been a pistol guy and I would rather buy two more pistols than a rifle.

Camille Eonich · January 24, 2012, 03:27:13 PM

Couple of things to keep in mind if the match director does opt to let you shoot pistols rather than the rifle at local matches is 1) it's going to be a bit of a hassle getting two pistols and a shotgun staged without having extra leather to carry the two extra pistols up in and 2) you won't be able to shoot a SASS sanctioned match without a rifle and 3) I've never seen any club make permanent allowances for equipment like that. Doesn't mean that some clubs won't it just means I have never seen it happen. I do know one club that isn't SASS affiliated that wouldn't care a bit if you did that forever.

Tall Dark Slim · January 24, 2012, 07:33:19 PM

Today I spoke with the fella that runs the practices on Mondays. He was tickled pink to let me try it. I know it's going to be different, but who cares it'll be fun. I was ignorant to the staging difficulty until he spelled it out for me. Two arms. Three guns. PITA(please invent the answer). An extra holster or two is in order. No problem and since It's just to stage them I would think it would have to be sass legal, just a get it there rig. At least one of my holsters is leather but has non period snaps. Is that problematic?

Johnny McCrae · January 25, 2012, 06:18:24 AM

Howdy Slim,

You might want to consider taking the Head Guy's offer to try a Rifle. You could possibly discover that you will like shooting a Rifle in an actual match more than you think. When I started shooting SASS matches, I was not too excited about shooting a Shotgun. I only bought a Shotgun because it was required. Some of the experienced Shooters have helped me with my loading techniques and now the Shotgun is one of my favorite guns to shoot. Just my humble opinion.

Tall Dark Slim · January 25, 2012, 07:33:20 AM

To quote Matthew Quigley, "I said I had no use for one, never said I didn't know how to use one." Next to my 1886, please forgive the next comment, a pistol caliber carbine is just plain worthless to me. I might be convinced to try a lightning someday, but the truth of it is that I have little desire to go around picking up brass from a carbine that I don't really want to fool with. The investment of time, energy and patience needed to get it to where it needs to be is out of reach for me right now. NCOWS really has something going with the working cowboy class. Simple. No arsenal required. Sass should follow suit and allow people to shoot two types of weapons. The power factors are very low so it's not like a COF could be completed by one or the other. Since I'm on the soap box how about lessening the holster spacing requirements so we skinny folk can carry more guns on the belt for Josey Wales and maybe create a Raider category where you'd could have six pistols in lieu of the other weapons. This would be much like Quantrill's raiders or the Redlegs.