2012 National Stages?

J.R. Logan · January 16, 2012, 09:14:12 AM

Does anyone want to shoot Pocket pistol or derringer on some of the main match stages at the National? Working on stage design and think about including on about 4 of the stages, what are your thoughts?

J. R. Logan

Cole Bluesteele · January 16, 2012, 09:29:53 AM

We have required shooters to use these traditionally non main match pistols at a few of our monthly shoots. What we have learned is that the biggest drawback is the shooters usage of firearms with which they are not familiar. Thus creating a possible safety issue. Besides a possible safety issue the lack of familiarity can and does effect the shooters performance, which could have a negative impact on the shooter's score and class finish.

For the above reasons we do not include a derringer or pocket pistol in our Regional's main match stages.

Ted

jefff · January 16, 2012, 09:45:30 AM

i don't think it will be well recieved .it has been done before at nationals and the issues that came up in main match comp made it unadvisable.jefff

Cliff Fendley · January 16, 2012, 09:50:18 AM

I would think that should be something left to a side match. Some of the shooters may not have a pocket pistol and I think it is wrong in a match to make someone borrow and/or shoot a firearm they have never picked up.

Irish Dave · January 16, 2012, 10:02:00 AM

Agreed. While an integral part of NCOWS main match shooting at one time, it's best left to the side matches these days.

Pancho Peacemaker · January 16, 2012, 10:44:49 AM

J.R.,

I like the idea of incorporating 'something different' into a match. This keeps things interesting and sets us appart from other shooting organizations.

How 'bout:

"Shooter has the option of staging a pocket pistol with 5 shots in it and using it in place of one main match pistol."

If folks don't want to shoot the PP, they don't have to. From my experience, 80% of WAS shooters own a PP and everybody is always looing for an excuse to shoot them.

Since most folks don't have very secure ways of wearing a pocket pistol, I'd stage the PP on a bench and have it return to the bench. This avoids PP dropping out of vest pockets and also avoids "Mexican" carry.

If we use Derringers, that needs better policing on authenticity. At last year's Nationals, I saw three folks shoot "Bond" derringers for score on the side matches. That should not be allowed.

Tjackstephens · January 16, 2012, 02:10:49 PM

I don't like Derringers period! Don't consider them safe and don't think they should be allowed at any match at any time. That's my thoughts with background for my thoughts. Pocket pistols are a different matter all together. Would love to see them in the main match. If the shooter does not have one, then they could use a main match pistol or borrow one if they feel safe using one. Years ago and at some of the Regionals they were used. I like shooting my S&W pocket pistol and wish they could be used more. I see nothing in the bylaws that would keep them out. Of couse don't think there is anything to keep the Derringers out. Tj

Grizzle Bear · January 16, 2012, 04:32:26 PM

Where to start........

We have always had at least a couple of stages at the NCOWS Nationals in the past where a pocket pistol or derringer was used. If the shooter did not have one of their own, there were always plenty available to borrow. The target, as well as the distance to it, need to be within the usefulness of the firearm.

But on another subject:

I am really stunned by the notion that shooting different firearms is somehow unsafe. And I mean open-mouthed, "hummina-hummina" stunned.

A few years ago at our Two-Gun Shoot, we had one stage where the shooter started out firing their own rifle, and ended with their own pistol. In between they went down the line and fired eight different firearms*, some of them truly wierd. (Okay, so I like oddball guns!) Everybody loved it, and there were no safety problems of any kind. Is there a shooter alive that doesn't like shooting someone else's gun?

Besides which, if you are going to call yourself an Old West Shootist, you really ought to be familiar with any firearms you might have encountered during the period.

Grizzle Bear

(If I remember correctly they were:)

Henry Rifle
Trapdoor carbine
Sharps cartridge
Sharps percussion
Peabody rifle
Spencer Rifle
Revolving carbine

Tjackstephens · January 16, 2012, 05:11:32 PM

Grizzle Bear, That does sound like fun. Tj

Books OToole · January 17, 2012, 09:24:21 AM

Griz;

That was a fun stage.
Change the Sharps percussion to a Smith carbine
& the Peabody to a Remington Rolling Block. As I recalled that is the arsenal that we shot.

The senario was; You are alone at Wights's Station and were set upon by a hoard of bad guys. The shooter was trying make it look like the Station was defended by more than just him.

Books

jefff · January 17, 2012, 09:49:27 AM

after working at many nationals i advise against this because of issues this created in the past.jefff
any questions call me 859-985-3232

Books OToole · January 17, 2012, 10:40:09 AM

I believe that it was the last National held at Ackley, where all of the 4-gun classes were actually 5-gun classes because every (yes every) stage started out with a pocket pistol.

It is my humble opionion that the Main Match stages should be simple (meaning not confusing). Not nessecaryily all from the same cookie cutter but not bizzar. Senariors should be straight forward gunfights or hunting set-ups.

Diversity of weapons and really different shooting layouts should be left for side matches.

Which leads me to the 2012 NCOWS National Side Matches. Last year at the National Match I discussed a future side-match concept with shooters from posses all over the country. It was pretty much agreed upon to have diffeent Posses each sponser and over see a side match.

It is time to step up and let me know what you would like to do.

The KVC will sponsor a precision rifle match from the church.
Col. Bishops Regulators will over see the Mine car.

And...

Books
Side Match Coordinator

Cole Bluesteele · January 17, 2012, 04:43:34 PM

Books,

The Berger Sharpshooters are willing to do a two man team side match like we did at our regional. We would need two stages to set this up.

Ted

River City John · January 18, 2012, 05:53:19 PM

What day will the side matches be shot?
RCJ

Tjackstephens · January 18, 2012, 06:45:25 PM

RCJ, The side matches in the town have always been shot on the Thursday with the main match on Friday and Saturday. The only match that may be different, trap may be shot at night under the lights. At least that is what Duke Henry told me he was planning. Also there will be some dirt moving at West Side that should make the long range a little longer that it has been. Duke has gone back to school and it keeps him pretty busy. He tries to call every now and then and updates me. Cash Creek also tries to keep me informed on meetings at West Side Sportsmen Club. Believe Books is the man in charge of side matches this year. He is working with NCOWS posse to get each club to handle a side match. Tj

Tjackstephens · January 18, 2012, 06:46:42 PM

J. R. Have we come up with a title for the 2012 National? Tj

Rowdy Fulcher · January 19, 2012, 02:23:37 AM

TJ
What about Searching for Gold ? That would be different .

Books OToole · January 19, 2012, 11:01:42 AM

Quote from: Cole Bluesteele on January 17, 2012, 04:43:34 PM
Books,

The Berger Sharpshooters are willing to do a two man team side match like we did at our regional. We would need two stages to set this up.

Ted

Ted;

I will give you a call this weekend. When is a good time?

Books

Tjackstephens · January 19, 2012, 11:56:30 AM

Rowdy, If left up to me that would be really good. Don't know who makes that call. Tj

J.R. Logan · January 19, 2012, 04:11:52 PM

Tjack I have not named any of the Nationals, just wrote stage design for the last couple and was asked to do it again. Stages this year will be based on members of The Wild Bunch (not the movie). Hope to have all stages done by the Convention in March for the power that be to look over.

Take care.

J. R. Logan