"Battle of the .45 Colt Bulge"

PJ Hardtack · January 12, 2012, 11:40:32 AM

Recently I had my .44/.45 Kirst Remington conversion at the range along with my .45 Uberti 'Lightning'. After tumbling the fired brass, I noticed several casings with what looked like the beginning of incipient case head separation. First time I've ever seen CAS brass with such signs.
It wasn't as a result of heavy loads as I was shooting 230/250 gr loads with 6 grs of Tite Group and Red Dot.

On the way home, I picked up a copy of the current 'Handloader' magazine to find an article by Brian Pierce on the very topic! He reports that cases so affected may or may not be fully resized to the point where they will chamber freely in all .45 Colt firearms, depending on the type of sizing die and it's design features.
Some carbide rings are belled to ease case entry and may not remove the bulge. My carbide .45 die is a Dillon product, and while a little finicky about case insertion at times, it seems to resize cases back to specs.

I suspect that the Lightning has a larger than minimum chamber and I'm going to have to aware of the associated problems. I'm already considering annealing all my .45 Colt brass to eliminate case smudging and give a better seal with BP.

Jefro · January 12, 2012, 01:23:25 PM

Another thing you can do with the 45 cases for a better seal, is only resize down to the bullet depth. Works good, especially with the 45 Special. Good Luck

Jefro :DRelax-Enjoy

Four Eyes Henry · January 12, 2012, 06:12:17 PM

Had about the same thing with my Rossi when I made the ammo on standard RCBS and Lee dies.
I could see the bullet (.452) sitting in the case

so I had a sizerdie reamed out to .472. The cartridges fit my Vaqueros like a glove and cases expand a little bit in the Rossi.
I can thumb seat the bullets now, ofcourse, but they are on a blackpowder charge and with a rollcrimp they can't go either way.
Blowback is non existent to minimal and after three years I'm losing the MagTech cases because of the cannelure where they start to crack. I'll shorten those to 45CS

for a second life in the revolvers.
Hope this can help you.

Pettifogger · January 12, 2012, 07:12:42 PM

The Uberti Lightning is not nearly as bad as the Pedersoli for bulging cases. I have several and what the factories have done is very slightly ramp the bottom portion of the chamber to ease chambering. On my Pedersoli the fired cases come out looking like a Pot Bellied Pig. They are a pain to resize and it you don't get them back to round in shape and to spec, they will jam the next time you try to fire them. If I am going to a big match with a Lightning, I will only use new brass.

w44wcf · January 12, 2012, 08:59:27 PM

P J Hardtack,
Ah...the infamous .45 Colt case bulge. I first experienced it back in 1974 when I purchased my first .45 Colt ... a Ruger Blackhawk. At first I thought that the chambers were oversized. A call to Ruger indicated that the maximum diameter could be as large as .491" (!) at the rear of the chamber. My chambers measured .488".

At a cartridge diameter of .475, cases expanded to .486 /.487" diameter ahead of the rim in my Ruger with heavy (30,000 cup) loads. The buldge was certainly more pronounced on one side than the other.

I finally decided to full length size the cases and put a .10" wide .005" thick piece of tape around the cases ahead of the rim.
One firing with a heavy load and the cases expanded pretty evenly all the way around. I removed the tape and then only neck sized the cases from that day forward........

Thankfully, those same cases fit my 2 other .45 Colt revolvers and my Marlin Cowboy rifle aok.

A few things you could consider doing....
1.) Neck size the case to about 1/16" below where the base of the bullet rests and leave the rest of the case unsized.

2.) Neck size the case and use the Lee carbide criming die that has a carbide ring that will size the base of the case to a slightly larger diameter than the standard carbide sizing die does.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/217484/lee-carbide-factory-crimp-die-45-colt-long-colt-454-casull

3.) Redding now offers a dual sizing die for the .45 Colt.....but the price.....ouch!
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/943821/redding-dual-ring-carbide-sizer-die-45-colt-long-colt

w44wcf

Pettifogger · January 12, 2012, 10:40:46 PM

Thanks for posting about the Redding dual sizing die. I have lots of Redding dies but they didn't have that one the last time I bought any. I wonder if it will resize the base enough to cycle properly through a Lightning? The text explaining the dies features indicate it leaves the bases slightly larger and only fully sizes the case mouth for the bullet. Anyone tried one of these?

rickk · January 13, 2012, 07:32:51 AM

I got into 45 colt last year.

The first set of dies I got were made by LEE. When the dies were adjusted as they are supposed to be adjusted the brass would not fully chamber either of my New Vaqueros. I screwed the die in probably further than one should with a die containing a carbide ring and the brass "sort of" fit.

I got an RCBS die set and that fixed the problem. They sized the case a bit further down on the brass and the chambering problem went away.

For what it's worth, I was concerned enough about the issue that I got a 45 colt Wilson case gauge. I used it 100% at first, but now that I have more confidence in the RCBS dies I just use it when I start a reloading session to make sure all is well.

I reload a LOT of calibers, and the 45 Colt is the fist one that has given me such grief.

Rick

Grapeshot · January 13, 2012, 08:57:32 AM

Quote from: Four Eyes Henry on January 12, 2012, 06:12:17 PM
Had about the same thing with my Rossi when I made the ammo on standard RCBS and Lee dies.
I could see the bullet (.452) sitting in the case so I had a sizerdie reamed out to .472. The cartridges fit my Vaqueros like a glove and cases expand a little bit in the Rossi.
I can thumb seat the bullets now, ofcourse, but they are on a blackpowder charge and with a rollcrimp they can't go either way.
Blowback is non existent to minimal and after three years I'm losing the MagTech cases because of the cannelure where they start to crack. I'll shorten those to 45CS for a second life in the revolvers.
Hope this can help you.

You might try triming those cases to Schofield length so you do not have to ream out the cases to get then to seat bullets without bulging the case walls to the point of not being able to chamber.

w44wcf · January 13, 2012, 05:54:07 PM

Quote from: Pettifogger on January 12, 2012, 10:40:46 PM
Thanks for posting about the Redding dual sizing die. I have lots of Redding dies but they didn't have that one the last time I bought any. I wonder if it will resize the base enough to cycle properly through a Lightning? The text explaining the dies features indicate it leaves the bases slightly larger and only fully sizes the case mouth for the bullet. Anyone tried one of these?

Pettifogger,
I have not, but I think that the base diameter will size the case to .480" which is the SAAMI spec case dimension (-.006) while the front carbide ring will size to about .470" OD. The Lee Carbide crimp die sizes the base to .480".

The .45 Colt chamber is slightly tapered. Here are the SAAMI specs for chamber and cartridge:
chamber - front: .480" / .484" ..... average .482"
chamber - rear: .487" / .491" ..... average .489"

cartridge - .473 / .480 .... average .4765

When full length sizing with a standard carbide die, the base of the cartridge is sized below the SAAMI O.D. The two step die eliminates that condition as does neck sizing and then using the Lee Carbide Crimp die......or just neck size only if the cases will be used in the same gun.

I have an older RCBS die (not carbide) that I purchased back in 1974. It has two diameters - neck .470, base .480"....so the two step sizing die is not a new idea.......

w44wcf

Four Eyes Henry · January 14, 2012, 07:45:03 AM

@ Grapeshot
I also have 45 acp so I only have to change the shellholder.
With MagTech cases I don't have to ream the inside

with PMC I do.

PJ Hardtack · January 14, 2012, 01:54:01 PM

I just won 'The Battle of the Bulge'!

I adjusted my Dillon .45 Colt die just short of contact with the shell plate - voila! The bulge was ironed out perfectly.

I love simple solutions to non-existent problems .... ;>)

Pettifogger · January 15, 2012, 05:09:47 PM

It never hurts to follow the directions. That's how the die is supposed to be adjusted.

PJ Hardtack · January 16, 2012, 11:36:35 AM

C'mon Pettifogger - we're men. First thing we do is chuck the 'destructions'.

Actually, I hadn't experienced the 'bulge' until I got the Uberti Lightning. I don't fix what ain't broke.

Galloway · January 20, 2012, 08:19:55 PM

I have a taurus lightning in 45 and fired cases come out looking like 44-40's, not sure if thats what you all are talking about? I figured it was a poorly cut chamber but hasnt caused any problems so i dont mind.

cpt dan blodgett · January 21, 2012, 11:03:02 AM

1 of those things full length resizing die needs to be set to full length resize

Hoof Hearted · January 22, 2012, 10:26:40 AM

Yes but be careful that a carbide sizer does not make contact with the shellholder/plate or you run the risk of breaking the carbide insert!

Hoof Hearted · January 22, 2012, 10:28:28 AM

Quote from: PJ Hardtack on January 12, 2012, 11:40:32 AM
I suspect that the Lightning has a larger than minimum chamber and I'm going to have to aware of the associated problems. I'm already considering annealing all my .45 Colt brass to eliminate case smudging and give a better seal with BP.

PJ

Be super careful that you do not anneal the base of your cases or your bulging case issue will be greatly amplified $:-\$

jd_daily · January 22, 2012, 07:56:06 PM

My match rifle is an Uberti lightning 45LC and I was not aware that you can have case bulges. So, I just checked the fired cases from the last two club matches in one of my Vaquero's cylinder. I found only 24 out of 248 cases that required a lot of force to chamber. I load a 200 grain LRNFP bullet over 5.8 grains of Trail Boss using Dillon dies in an XL650. All of the cases were reloaded at least once. The bulge is uniform and starts just below the groove in Magtech cases and ends approximately 1/2 inch above the case head. I assume this is where the case wall thickens. My question is why only 10% of the cases have a bulge when 50% of the case were fired in the rifle?

PJ Hardtack · January 22, 2012, 08:23:23 PM

Hoof Hearted

Thanks for the advice, but I've been annealing brass for my BPCRs for years. Bit of a learning curve, but I think I've got a handle on it .... ;>)

w44wcf · January 25, 2012, 04:51:14 AM

Full length sizing the 45 Colt case with the typical carbide die will reduce the case diameter to below SAMMI specs prior to neck expanding step (no problem with that when using typical cowboy loads though except that more blowby is the result)

Thus the reason for the new dual ring carbide die by Redding and the carbide seater die by Lee to be used in conjunction with a neck sized case.

w44wcf