Wilder's Brigade armed in part with Henry rifles along with Spencers??????

[Sean Thornton]

On page 63 of Richard Baumgartner's excellent book entitled "Blue Lightning" he mentions "Although Wilder armed his command with the Spencer rifle, some members of the brigade opted privately to purchase 16-shot Henry rifles. By May 1863 all of 17th Indiana scouts carried Henrys".  I have not been able to find any other sources that mentioned the Wilder's Brigade also were armed in part with a few Henry rifles along with their Spencers.  I have searched about all combinations using the net and have not come up with anything so time to pick the brains of others with similar interest in the Henry rifle as well as the Spencer.

What I am after are any sources that anyone may know of that mention where Henry rifles were used by Wilder's Brigade.  Thank you in advanced for any help.  I already know that he wanted to buy Henry rifles for all of his command but could not find enough Henry rifles for sale. Evidently some Henry rifles were found.

Thanks again.

[Two Flints]

Hi Sean,

Probably not what you're looking for but thought I'd add this to your thread.  Read the comments by Ramsay:



The following two pages come from Lightning at Hoover's Gap by Glenn W. Sunderland.  Wilder's men wanted the Spencer over the Henry?  Not enough Henry's available for purchase anyway?  Spencer's had more "knock down" power? If Wilder's men chose the Henry over the Spencer, perhaps it was because the Henry was cheaper than the $35.00 they agreed to pay for their Spencers?





Two Flints

[Preston County Rider]

Saen - I just finished a second book on Wilder's Lightening Brigade - "Wilder's Lightning Brigade - And Its Spencer Repeaters" by Glenn Sunderland (Originally called "Lightning at Hoover's Gap") - Lightning is their spelling, not mine - and there is no reference anywhere to Henrys with the Brigade. There is a great quote on how the boys loaded their horse, divided up the pack and ammo - "In our cartridge box we carried 40 rounds of metallic cartridges, and in our saddle pockets 40 to 60 rounds more".

FWIW

Vince /PCR

[JimBob]

If they are in existence somewhere in the state or national archives the unit's Quarterly Ordnance Stores returns would most likely answer your question by listing the rifles and/or ammunition on hand in a given quarter.

[Trailrider]

If they are in existence somewhere in the state or national archives the unit's Quarterly Ordnance Stores returns would most likely answer your question by listing the rifles and/or ammunition on hand in a given quarter.

I wonder if the state or national records would record private-purchase arms and ammunition? Such arms would not have been issued and thus would not be accountable so far as the Federal Ordnance Dept. was concerned. The same would be true for sidearms purchased by officers or well-to-do enlistedmen.

I have often wondered if Forsyth's Scouts were armed exclusively with Spencer carbines or Spencer Rifles w/triangular bayonet, since the latter were the issue arm for the 3rd Infantry, of which Lt. Fred. Beecher, 2nd-in-command, was Acting Assistant Quartemaster when the expedition was formed.  Unfortunately, those records are missing from the Archives records for that period of time. 

Happy New Year, all!

Unfortunately, my microfilm records are not accessable right now, and I recall that the records are not complete for the entire CW, nor for all units.

[JimBob]

I wonder if the state or national records would record private-purchase arms and ammunition? Such arms would not have been issued and thus would not be accountable so far as the Federal Ordnance Dept. was concerned. The same would be true for sidearms purchased by officers or well-to-do enlistedmen.

I have found that many times although private purchase arms are not listed on QOS reports the ammunition is if the unit was armed in quantity with a certain type arm.I seem to remember if an entire unit was armed with a certain weapon the ammunition was supplied through the Ordnance Dept. after the unit was taken into Federal service.Private purchase arms by the one or three or in small quantities don't show up as you say.One unit I was looking at listed no Henry rifles but the ammunition showed up in the QOS reports indicating some of the unit was armed with them.Some Illinois units known to have been armed with Henry rifles at least in part never list them although photographic and historical evidence indicate otherwise.Sometimes looking for this type information is more a case of detective work than research like looking to see if they were issued ammunition in quantity for something than looking for the weapon to be listed itself.

[Sean Thornton]

Thank you to all that responded.  I did find my answer that I was looking for.  Even thought Wilder's Brigade was armed with Spencer rifles it seems there were anywhere from 25 to 50 or more men of Wilder's Brigade that privately purchased Henry rifles.  It would be interesting to find out how the men of Wilder's brigade felt about which rifle was better and why.  I have used both weapons, Spencers and Henry rifles, firing thousands of rounds and do have a favorite if I were in a live and death situation.  At any rate thanks again.

[Two Flints]

. . . .  and your favorite is . . .

[Sean Thornton]

. . . .  and your favorite is . . .

Why of course the Spencer, how could it be another, at least on this site.  LOL 

[Two Flints]

C'mon Sean,

I've been to your web site and have read your opinions on the Henry so I know where you stand on your "favorite"  

$35.00 vs $45.00 was a big difference in $$s back in the day.  You give many other reasons why the Spencer was picked over the Henry for Union troops.  A good choice I think

Glad you are interested in both weapons . . . and I do enjoy firing my Spencer blanks

Two Flints

[72nd Indiana]

One thing to add: in Benjamin Magee's (or McGee's) History of the 72d Indiana Volunteer Infantry, there's a discussion on pgs 119 - 122 about the Henry vs. Spencer. Magee describes the Henry's faults ("...easily got out of repair and was, because of its shape, entirely unfit for the manual of arms.") and spends a long paragraph about the Spencer. The Spencer "...was so nearly perfect , that after using it for two years, our brigade had not a single change to suggest... " At least for Magee and the 72nd, the Spencer was the best weapon period.

[Preston County Rider]

72nd - is the History of the 72nd still in print? Is there somewhere I can get a copy?

Thanks
PCR

[Two Flints]

Here is a listing of the same book - printed on demand - from various book sellers.

http://www.abebooks.com/book-search/title/history-72d-indiana-volunteer-infantry-mounted-lightning-brigade/

Two Flints

[72nd Indiana]

PCR - to add to Two Flint's post (the book is very out-of-print), you can download the book from google (search their book section for "72d Indiana"). It's in a scanned pdf form.