Question on Swiss powder

[Beauregard Hooligan]

I don't want to drive to Glencoe, Ca. to buy Goex from the Buckskinning vendor I had previously used, and don't want to buy and keep 25 pounds in my home. I do have a fellow who owns a locksmith company in Lodi, Ca. that sells Swiss powder to the BPCS shooters. What I would like to know is if the 3f Swiss will work well in BP pistol cartridges and in caplock pistols. Are there any tips you might have to make about using that powder compared to Goex? Thank you in advance.

[Mako]

Swiss is a good powder and is superior to Goex in most ways except price.  It is made from Alder charcoal which has a high lignon and creosote content compared to most other powders.  The creosote makes it burn what we call "moist,"  this means your fouling will stay softer.  Soft fouling is GOOD fouling...

It's a premium powder and actually produces a bit more pressure than Goex.  Loads with it have a lower standard deviation in the muzzle velocity than many powders including Goex.

You can actually load any of the pistol cartridges with it. Most people normally switch to FFg when the case capacities go over 25 grains.  I use FFFg in .38 spl , .44 Russian and usually .44 spl.,  but I sometimes shift to FFg even with .44 spl.  I load FFg in .44wcf (.44-40) and .45 Colt.  But you can use FFFg if you want a rockn' large caliber load.

FFg (2F) is better for your shotgun loads so if you were to get only one I would get FFg.  I have used FFg in my .44 caliber cap guns and I have used FFFg in shotshells, but I think a universal powder for .44 caliber and above would be FFg.

Now that I've posted this your gonna get response that people have shot 1 1/2 F, Cowboy and even Fg in .44 caliber pistols.  I tried Fg a couple of times trying to get a bigger flame from an 1860 but the booms were anemic and there was actually less smoke.  I've even used the recovered sweepings from loading spills in my cap guns.  As you can see I'm not picky, except I want a big and rolling boom, a solid clang from the target steel and in the case of shotgun loads I want the falling plates to smack back with authority, not just topple over.

You have never told us what calibers you are going to load.  That will help us recommend either FFg or FFFg.

Regards,
Mako

[Dick Dastardly]

If you can find another source, Swiss is a waste in your scattergun SASS loads.  Shot shells hold a LOT of powder and the SASS targets don't appreciate the difference that Swiss quality makes when the pellets fly.

I've shot FFFg Swiss in my 44 ELR (Extra Long Russian, 44 Magnum to those in Rio Linda) and find it to be a fine and accurate powder.  Fouling is never an issue since I load Mav Dutchman Big Lube®LLC bullets in my 44s.

DD-MDA

[Ranch 13]

You can order powder in 5lb lots from Powder Inc.
You can also order powder a lb at a time from Grafs.

[quigleysharps4570]

You can also order powder a lb at a time from Grafs.

That would be one high dollar pound of powder for sure.

[Ranch 13]

Cheaper than a 10 0z can of that Blackthorn crap.

[quigleysharps4570]

And get a whole lot more shooting in. Never could understand them folks that wanted to shoot that crap.

[john boy]

Swiss is a good powder and is superior to Goex in most ways except price

Mako, the Hodgdon boys are trying real hard to shorten the price difference!  As of October 2009, the price of Goex increased 22% in one year
Would think that we will see some recover costs of the corning house explosion pretty soon too  

[w44wcf]

Swiss is a good powder and is superior to Goex in most ways except price.  It is made from Alder charcoal which has a high lignon and creosote content compared to most other powders.  The creosote makes it burn what we call "moist,"  this means your fouling will stay softer.  Soft fouling is GOOD fouling...

It's a premium powder and actually produces a bit more pressure than Goex.  Loads with it have a lower standard deviation in the muzzle velocity than many powders including Goex.

You can actually load any of the pistol cartridges with it. Most people normally switch to FFg when the case capacities go over 25 grains.  I use FFFg in .38 spl , .44 Russian and usually .44 spl.,  but I sometimes shift to FFg even with .44 spl.  I load FFg in .44wcf (.44-40) and .45 Colt.  But you can use FFFg if you want a rockn' large caliber load................

Regards,
Mako

+1
In addition, it is about 8-10% more dense than most other black powders which means that it requires less compression.



The only currenly produced b.p. that has pretty much the same density is Diamondback which has the least energy per grain. Swiss has the most.

The powers and charge weights in the pic above will replicate the ballistics of the original 44-40 cartridge (1.300 f.p.s.)
w44wcf

[Dakota Widowmaker]

Mako, the Hodgdon boys are trying real hard to shorten the price difference!  As of October 2009, the price of Goex increased 22% in one year
Would think that we will see some recover costs of the corning house explosion pretty soon too  

Hmm... I just checked with Powder Inc. and the price of a 25 lb lot of GOEX is not much different today than when I bought my last 25lb order a few years back.

(The most I have gone through is 4lbs in one year, and that was when I shot all cap-n-ball for 6 matches along with rifle and shotgun)

For shotgun, I just use 777 as I don't have to mess with special wads and it has plenty of smoke. I know its not TRUE BP, but, of all the subs, its the lest amount of hassle working up a load with available components. And with a coupon from Cabela's, I manged to get a few pounds at a price that was "reasonable".

Skirmish powder for shotguns also works well... and until I had heard of Diamondback, I had no idea of how low priced BP could get.

[Pony Racer]

BH - there are usually more than a few pards and or pardettes who need a powder resupply.  I have been a part of case (25 - 1lb cans) buys with 3-4 folks and one time we even did a two case buy.

I try to always have about 7-10 lbs of the stuff on hand - that way if i give a can to a new shooter - I know I have enough to last until next case buy.

The price of Swiss is higher than the rest but you can get Scheutzen and Diamondback pretty cheap if you buy by the case.

I can get Diamondback at 10.00 a can and I think Scheutzen in a case breaks down to around 12.50-13.00 a can.  I hear KIK and Goex can be had for a good price too by the case.

PR

[Ranch 13]

10lbs of KIK delivered to your door from Powder inc is just a touch over 150$, that's the about the same as trying to buy 7 lbs of swiss at a shop someplace.

[Dakota Widowmaker]

10lbs of KIK delivered to your door from Powder inc is just a touch over 150$, that's the about the same as trying to buy 7 lbs of swiss at a shop someplace.

YUP!!!

I passed along a few pounds to some fellow soot lords at each match and managed to recoup my HAZMAT and S&H in only a day.

I a NOT running a business, only helping out a fellow shooter who needs a can or two and doesn't have time to run across town.

I've split (2) 25lb orders with other shooters and have no regrets.

[cpt dan blodgett]

If price is roughly equal KIK or Schuetzen??? 45/70 LR

Assuming anything that goes boom will work at normal CAS match ranges.

[Ranch 13]

They are about equal in price, but KIK is THE cleanest burning blackpowder available today. It truly might just be the one powder that is as good as what the old timers had.

[cpt dan blodgett]

Will see if the Powder Guy that shows up for the BP events at Ben Avery the week after WR carrys it.  If not powder inc here i come.

[quigleysharps4570]

Good to hear that about the KIK because I've 11 or 12 pounds of it sitting here that I've yet to put to use.

[john boy]

Good to hear that about the KIK because I've 11 or 12 pounds of it sitting here that I've yet to put to use.

Quigley, don't know when you bought your KIK powder, but there have been 3 different lot shipments that have come into the US.  Lot 2004 & 2007 - were fair to poor, with 2004 being the worst.  The new 2010 shipment was made in 2009 and KIK did a turn around ... this powder is top shelf stuff

[quigleysharps4570]

Got this order in Aug. 2010...but the cans are 2007. At the time I figured if it didn't pan out in my muzzleloaders surely my cap-n-ball revolvers or cartridge rifles would like it. Ever make time I'll see. Thanks john boy. 

[Ranch 13]

 I have it on reliable source that there's no difference in velocity between the 07 and 2010 lots of KIK powder.