Shot My Marlin 1889 Today

Bryan Austin · December 29, 2011, 06:10:43 PM

She came to life once more. Today I shot my Marlin 1889 44 WCF (44-40) manufactured in 1891 (eighteen ninety one). First time I have shot it since at least 1982 when I was in high school. Today I used an original design bullet (Lyman 427098) sized to .428, that I loaded with 35gr of Swiss FF black powder. It was getting dark and the 25 yard target could be seen with ease but these ole eyes ain't what they use to be. I scored five hits with a 2" group...ok my wife actually scored one of the lower hits! Sweet in deed...the rifle, not my wife!

Steel Horse Bailey · December 29, 2011, 06:34:08 PM

Awesome!

Good on ya, pard!

w44wcf · December 29, 2011, 06:52:33 PM

Jack,
What a neat vintage Marlin!

Nice group.
Thank you for making it talk again and....... sharing the adventure with us.

How's the bore?

w44wcf

Bryan Austin · December 29, 2011, 07:32:44 PM

Quote from: w44wcf on December 29, 2011, 06:52:33 PM
Jack,
What a neat vintage Marlin! Nice group.
Thank you for making it talk again and....... sharing the adventure with us.
How's the bore?

w44wcf

The bore is great with only one or two blemishes. No pits that I can see.

Bryan Austin · December 29, 2011, 07:36:43 PM

I noticed the "grove" hardly looks touched on the bullet..no scuff marks. The "lands" certainly look ok. Any thoughts?

Lazer Cast .430 with lube melted out. Slugged at .428.5

Steel Horse Bailey · December 30, 2011, 11:47:45 AM

Slug the bore. That bullet didn't (appear to) expand/touch/obdurate enough to make a good seal. It looks like the groove wasn't filled - it only was "engraved" by the lands. To me, and my eyes, that is.

Paladin UK · December 30, 2011, 01:07:43 PM

SHB says..........

QuoteSlug the bore.

+1

Paladin (Whats still havin Great Xmas holiday

) UK

Marshal Deadwood · December 30, 2011, 01:21:38 PM

Love them old Marlins and that is a fine looking one to be sure.

Deadwood

Jubal Starbuck · December 30, 2011, 02:31:08 PM

I have a Marlin 1889 also, but mine is a .38WCF. In my opinion they are fine rifles. I shoot black powder loads in mine exclusively, although I have not loaded any Swiss in this caliber. I save the Swiss for .40-65 and .45-70. My rifle seems to prefer bullets on the softer side, so you may want to try softer bullets in yours also as the one pictured does not appear to have upset much. I've had good luck with MAV Dutchman bullets in .44WCF lubed with SPG ahead of a caseful of black powder in an original 1873 Winchester.
Mine get sized to .428 also.

Regards,

Jubal Starbuck

Mad Mucus · December 30, 2011, 03:05:07 PM

Thankyou SJ for sharing.....

Envious,

MM

Bryan Austin · December 30, 2011, 03:06:54 PM

Quote from: Steel Horse Bailey on December 30, 2011, 11:47:45 AM
Slug the bore. That bullet didn't (appear to) expand/touch/obdurate enough to make a good seal. It looks like the groove wasn't filled - it only was "engraved" by the lands. To me, and my eyes, that is.

I don't have any soft lead at 430

Steel Horse Bailey · December 31, 2011, 12:51:19 AM

Bryan Austin · December 31, 2011, 04:37:26 AM

oh wait, yes I do!!! The NOE 432-200!!! I just have to cast some more. The ones I have are already resized.

Steel Horse Bailey · December 31, 2011, 12:10:09 PM

Quote from: Savvy Jack on December 31, 2011, 04:37:26 AM
oh wait, yes I do!!! The NOE 432-200!!! I just have to cast some more. The ones I have are already resized.

There ya go, pard! Good luck to ya.

It seems to me that over time, the dimensions for 44WCF (44-40) have changed. I think the older guns were .427" but more modern firearms got cored to .429" so the manufacturers didn't have to change tooling for different 44 caliber guns. That said, your gun and the picture of your recovered bullet seem to dispute that! If that bullet had been fired in a gun that was cut to .427" it would show striations all along the sides, not just rifling. This may show, however that the rifle has been shot a LOT, and the barrel has "grown" somewhat. I believe that this is nothing new and it simply shows a well-used and still very nice rifle. Not to mention that dimensional consistency wasn't as well regulated (by the factories, NOT the government!) and the dimensions varied a lot more back then than what can be done now, in our CNC-controlled manufacturing world of 2011 ... or 2012 in 10 hours and 55 minutes! Since the world is coming to an end, soon it prob'ly doesn't matter.

What DOES matter is you having fun shooting your cool old rifle!

Bryan Austin · December 31, 2011, 08:01:07 PM

Quote from: Steel Horse Bailey on December 31, 2011, 12:10:09 PM

There ya go, pard! Good luck to ya.

It seems to me that over time, the dimensions for 44WCF (44-40) have changed. I think the older guns were .427" but more modern firearms got cored to .429" so the manufacturers didn't have to change tooling for different 44 caliber guns. That said, your gun and the picture of your recovered bullet seem to dispute that! If that bullet had been fired in a gun that was cut to .427" it would show striations all along the sides, not just rifling. This may show, however that the rifle has been shot a LOT, and the barrel has "grown" somewhat. I believe that this is nothing new and it simply shows a well-used and still very nice rifle. Not to mention that dimensional consistency wasn't as well regulated (by the factories, NOT the government!) and the dimensions varied a lot more back then than what can be done now, in our CNC-controlled manufacturing world of 2011 ... or 2012 in 10 hours and 55 minutes! Since the world is coming to an end, soon it prob'ly doesn't matter.

What DOES matter is you having fun shooting your cool old rifle!

The action is tight, everything is tight. I just looked at my uncles 1915 manufactured 38-40 winchester 73 today. Loose as a goose. Won't even cycle if tilted at an angle. When cycling a cartridge, it hits the chamber throat at an angle. The bolt binds on something. I will post photos of the cartridge in another thread.

Wolfgang · January 01, 2012, 02:48:14 AM

Jack . . . real nice old Marlin. And thoughts on the '73 that is binding.

When I got my first original '73 the action was really sloppy. The brass carrier was very worn and so would tilt and bind. Putting in a new carrier fixed it a lot. Then putting in a new set of links fixed it a lot more. It had seen a lot of "real use" . . then been re finished. . . . then "abused a lot"

. Had so much rust under the forearam that there were holes actually rust thru the rear end of the magazine tube. But is shootable now though the bore needs brushed and swabbed out after every stage to keep it shooting good enough for cowboy action shooting ( ie. short ) range. I'm not unhappy that I bought it though as it was a good one on which to attend "Winchester 101" and become a bit of a "Winchester Mechanic".

That one at : http://www.drburkholter.com/cf4.html

The one I got this year ( which is EXCELLENT) at: http://www.drburkholter.com/cf21.html

Good shootin' . . . them real old rifles . . . in the New Year . . . .

Bryan Austin · January 01, 2012, 07:49:19 PM

Thanks Wolfgang

Bryan Austin · January 01, 2012, 08:27:55 PM

I slugged the barrel again today with an NOE 432-200 but I had already lubed and re-sized it to .429 The lead is soft. There are some areas where the bullet did not squeeze and expand fully into the grooves but some did. There are six grooves. Here is what I found on the driving band and the bottom band.

Driving band
1. 430
2. 430
3. 429.5

Bottom band
1. 430
2. 429.5
3. 430

Here is a 360 deg view of the slug. The notch on the round nose is where it went in at a slight angle before it lined up.

cpt dan blodgett · January 01, 2012, 08:40:23 PM

You may want to hand lube a few unsized bullets and see how they do.

Bryan Austin · January 01, 2012, 08:54:03 PM

Here is my Uberti Winchester 73. Much nicer