First Forray into Loading Shotgun with Holy Black

[cpt dan blodgett]

Should have taken a video as this process was really full of not so funny at the time but pretty hysterical moments.
Started off poorly and got worse before it got better.
Have a mec 600jr.  Intially used 11-8 charge bar and MEC 39 bushing probably 48.57 grains BP vs 50 for the 39a.
Have some 1 1-8 wads that work great for Green Dot loads using Federals or AA.
Filled powder bottle with FFg Scheutzen
Filled shot bottle 3/4 full with #8, picked it up to mount, plug fell out shot all over the place, most stayed in bottle.
cleaned up enough around the press to continue.

Discovered with current wad pressure 1 1-8 would not come close to fitting
No sweat I think.  Has been forever since I loaded shells and forgot how to set wad pressure.  Could download manual from web, but I am a guy afterall so I don't.  Figure out how to increase wad pressure, try another shell.  Fail to notice have the sleeve that actually compresses is so far down that when handle is raised funnel comes out of sleeve.  Next Down stroke, funnel hits end of sleeve, bottles flip over, shot bottle breaks, now I really have shot all over.   Scrape up some shot.  Decide the remnant of the bottle will hold a little shot so I dont need to run to Sportsmans or Cabelas right away.
Even with increased wad pressure 100 - 140 lbs The chage of shot will not work.  Switch to the 1 oz charge bar.  Evry thing works.  90% of shelss are pretty good looking .  A few wierrd crimps.  A few shels acted like they had a 4 star crim.  Not sure why, generally the shell before and the next shell would be close to perfect..  There is a reason I generally buy shot gun shells.  But now I hav almost 100 serviceable BP shells for Plainsman at WR.

Will go to sportsmans or cabelas today and get a couple of new bottles.  I guess I need a spare or two.  May even get some of the wads Mako recommends for a little more versitility.  Most of this weekend will be dedicated to picking up shot.  Next batch will be a lot easier as all is set up.  Sure wish some one had made a MEC Bushing BP Chart.  Guess I can make a spreadsheet based on proportions of a given powder to the 39A and apply that to the 50 grain charge for the 39A

[Mako]

Dan,
Sounds like a good learning process.  You now know why you need a "short" wad (actually the compression zone) for BP.  You need a Winchester WAA12R "RED" wad or the Claybusters substitute CB1138-12.



See how short the compression stage is?

This is a typical 1 1/8 wad, see how much longer the legs are?



Your smokiless powder charges are ittty bitty compared to the real powder, you need that case capacity for your Powder.

40lbs of pressure is all you need if you go above 60# you're gonna ruin your case.

~Mako

[August]

From my experience, you're dead nuts, on the money with that bushing.

I've had blown patterns with a no. 40 bushing and 1 oz of shot.  The ol' donut hole, donchaknow?

My present load is a 38 bushing and 1 1/8 ounces of shot.  A little more shot, and a little less powder yields a tighter pellet stream (i.e. tighter choke).  I use a claybuster red wad with this load.  I get 100% crimps since switching to the metal preformer.  The load is 100% on knock downs and throws a tight pattern for any birds that pop up.

I've found that, even with the stock-plastic star former, the shells need to be indexed to the former.  Doesn't take much effort, it will cam into place if the points of the star don't end up square onto the points of the crimp folds.  I just give the shell a little twist as I'm lowering the ram at the crimping station.

I would caution you to not add more powder, you'll just waste powder and make your field of fire more difficult to navigate.

[cpt dan blodgett]

Dan,
Sounds like a good learning process.  You now know why you need a "short" wad (actually the compression zone) for BP.  You need a Winchester WAA12R "RED" wad or the Claybusters substitute CB1138-12.



See how short the compression stage is?

This is a typical 1 1/8 wad, see how much longer the legs are?



Your smokiless powder charges are ittty bitty compared to the real powder, you need that case capacity for your Powder.

40lbs of pressure is all you need if you go above 60# you're gonna ruin your case.

~Mako

The wads I used have some kind of structure in the center making them virtually uncompressible.  Will get the CB1138s while getting my new bottles.

[hellgate]

A Walmart brand plastic 16oz cola bottle threads onto the mec. Other brands may fit too. Ther will be a few grains of spillage but not much as the threads don't quite bottom out on the press. I have several for different shot & powder. Save the caps.

Also you can cut the "legs" out of any of those AA type wads if you want even more room for powder or shot. If your gun has chokes that works great for heavy knockdown loads. As will be stated if not already. It is easy to pattern your loads at 10-15 yards against a cardboard box onto which you have stapled butcher paper. No need to get elaborate. You just want to see an even or center dense pattern.

[cpt dan blodgett]

Trips to both Sportsmans and Cabelas yielded none of the CB1128-12 short legged red wads, all they had were long legged whites.  If they had long legged yellows, would have bought them as who can pass up a long legged blonde?  Somebody had to say it.

[Wagon Box Willy]

I use the CB 1138-12, got them at Ballistic Products for 9 bucks.  I use an old Mec 600Jr where I drilled out the powder side of the 1-1/8 bar to drop 4.3cc (largest Lee Dipper) of BP and it makes a great load.

Willy

[Jefro]

Howdy cpt dan, get the right wads and bushings. Pressure doesn't need to be more than 30-40lbs, same as you would use for smokeless. Check out the Mec bushing chart under H110, this is close to FFg Scheutzen. Good Luck
Mec Bushing Chart

My favorite 1 1/8oz load is 55gr ffg (Mec bushing #40A) with BPI short wad #72SSW
BPI #72SSW

The load I use for most local matches is 7/8oz with 45gr ffg (Mec #36) with Win Pink wad AA12SL

Another good one is 1oz with 47gr ffg (Mec#37) with BPI wad Helix #18
Helix #18


Jefro Relax-Enjoy

[Fingers McGee]

I've got an adjustable charge bar on my MEC Sizemaster.  Makes it easy to change loadings.  Dont have to change bushings.  50 gr ffg, Claybuster wad & 7/8 oz of 7 1/2 shot works wonderfully on knockdowns and flying birds.

[cpt dan blodgett]

Thanks guys for all the info on other bushings and wads.
Found a 32 Bushing in my stuff.  Holds close to 40 grains on the scale.  Will have to see what it actually throws.

The info on H110 data being close to FFg Scheutzen is very good to know.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

I use the CB 1138-12, got them at Ballistic Products for 9 bucks.  I use an old Mec 600Jr where I drilled out the powder side of the 1-1/8 bar to drop 4.3cc (largest Lee Dipper) of BP and it makes a great load.

Willy

The CB 1138-12 is the Claybuster product that reproduces the old WW red wad.  In Canada the Claybuster distributor is;

Hummason Manufacturing Co         Ph;  905-648-3430
623 Trinity rd S.
Ancaster ON
Canada L9G 3K9

[Noz]

I use the CB 1100 wad with 1 oz of shot and around 40 grs of FFg.

[Lefty Dude]

I use the CB 1100 wad with 1 oz of shot and around 40 grs of FFg.

This works for me, also.

[hellgate]

I use 55gr BP+AA white wad+7/8oz shot in a Remington green hull (STS, Game or Club) for light easy faller or swinger targets.
For heavy fallers I use 75-80grs BP+LBC-30 steel shot cup slit twice+1 1/8oz #6 shot in a AA, ACTIV, or Black Remington case.

[Cactus Cris]

FOR WHAT IT IS WORTH--i USE A #33 POWDER BUSHING and 1 1/8 shot bar in my Grabber with 3f Schutzen.  AA Heavy hulls.  The white CB wad.  This give me about 37 gr. BP which will knock down any plate that I have seen so far in 22 yrs. of CAS.  Recoil is ok and has enough smoke & BOOM. 
   I used to load up my shells with 75-80 gr, a fiber wad and just the shot cup.  After a day of them I would find that my shoulder and spine didn't like them.

[hellgate]

Chris,
My guess is you have a shotgun with a nice, tight choke. When I started out in CAS I had (still do) a cut down 311 and couldn't bring down big, heavy fallers with that cyl/cyl bore so I went to the steel shot cups and that tightened the choke to MOD and down they went. I've seen squib loads that barely cleared the barrel put down heavy fallers because of concentrated patterns. My milage differed so I went to the 80gr, 1 1/8oz loads when I had to flatten something. Had I had a good choke I might be shooting extremely mild loads like yours. My 55gr loads are, to me "gamer" loads but now I use them 90% of the time. BTW I am DGB#29 (if you remember what that means from the SASS Wire).

[Cactus Cris]

Hellgate--My 2 shotguns are  Stoeger single trigger's with the barrels cut down to 22".  Don't think there is any choke left.   I patterned the heavy loads and found a hole in the spread at 15yds.  I did see a nice hole in the middle tho where the fiber wad went thru. 
  I still have a box or two of the "heavy" loads that I use for night shoots.  Nice flames and BIG BOOM. & yes I remember the DGB  can't remember my number tho.