Sheep Tallow

[rickk]

I just scored some sheep tallow and the place I got it from has about 30  1.8# containers left after my order.

http://www.grasslandbeef.com/Detail.bok?no=719

For what it's worth, they get it sporadically, so you have to email them once in a while to see when they are getting some in, especially if you want first dibs on it before they post it to their web site.

Rick

[Bottom Dealin Mike]

That's where I get mine too. I have eight pounds in the freezer right now.

[Mako]

Rickk,
That's good looking tallow if it is like the picture.  The price is good as well, Dixie charges $5.75 for a pound and they charge $5.95 shipping.  The pictures Dixie has are as snow white as the pictures on U.S. Wellness Meats, but the reality is the product isn't as white as it used to be based on some photos from John Boy.  I showed my three year old and the new and they are not "snow white," but not yellow either.  When you get yours take a snap shot.

I still have 4 1/2 pounds from the 6 pounds I ordered in May or I'd probably order a few more pounds from your source.  I froze 3 pounds of it and It'll last probably a couple of years at my loading rate.

So yours is a better deal.  I could have bought 3 tubs (115 oz.) from your source for $31.96 plus $7.50 handling, a grand total of $39.46.  Instead of 6 tubs (96 oz.) from Dixie for $34.50 and $5.95 for a grand total of $40.45.  I would get 19 more ounces from your source at roughly the same price.  Too bad they were out last Spring when you told us about them.

Regards,
Mako

[rickk]

Mako, I just went thru a couple of containers from Dixie and found that they were both under 12 ounces (even less than their advertized 12-16 ounce range).

The stuff I ordered today works out to under 4 bucks a pound shipped.  They gave me a $25 quantity price break for 40#, even though it is still in small containers (not a bulk bucket). Yeah,  40# is a lot, but I figure I can sell some of it come spring.  The rest will get mixed up and poured into lube stick molds. I am giving up pan lubing and switching to a Star lube/sizer.

I'll have to pick up a big 20mm ammo box at the surplus store to put it in or the damn mice will eat it for sure.

[Mako]

Rick,
I definitely believe you about the weight of the Tallow from Dixie.  Their site actually now says 12 to 16 ounces.  It didn't used to, I guess a few people got miffed.  When I was mixing my last batch I think the one tub worked out about 14 oz.  On the batch before that I made a big pyrex canister full and I was using part of an older tub, so I'm not sure what the weight was.  I still have 4 unopened, I'm curious now what the actual weight is in each.

Yep, you'd better have the can, them mices will chew right through that tub to get to that lovely tallow.

~Mako

[john boy]

Yep, that's the good tallow that US Wellness Meats has - when they have it.  The snowy white color is an indication the tallow was rendered from the kidney or back strap.  The white stuff has 54% saturated acids and 37% oleic acid which is what one wants in the lube then the yellowish tallow that is usually a soft slurry consistency

Here's a good scientific read on mutton tallow ... http://grasasyaceites.revistas.csic.es/index.php/grasasyaceites/article/viewFile/252/253

[Mako]

Yep, that's the good tallow that US Wellness Meats has - when they have it.  The snowy white color is an indication the tallow was rendered from the kidney or back strap.  The white stuff has 54% saturated acids and 37% oleic acid which is what one wants in the lube then the yellowish tallow that is usually a soft slurry consistency

Here's a good scientific read on mutton tallow ... http://grasasyaceites.revistas.csic.es/index.php/grasasyaceites/article/viewFile/252/253

John Boy,
I read the paper.  The fatty acid types are more important for the cosmetic and other uses than for BP lube.  Any of the fatty acids are good when it comes to binding hydrogen and incorporating water.  I know you read my thread on Petroleum Products in lube.  The more important thing would be the consistency and resistance to oxidation which makes it go rancid, the melt point differences are negligible.

Pure white tallow is nice, but there are more BP lube variables involved in the ratios of the tallow to waxes than from the consistency of the fat solids at any particular temperature.  Also note that everyone who uses a vegetable fat of some sort is using a different ratio in the acid types based on the plant type.

The desirability of Mutton Tallow comes from all three of the primary fatty acids oleic, palmitic and stearic, not just one over the other. 

You've talked about white tallow as being more desirable before, have you read a white paper or a report somewhere that attributed the whiter tallows or the Kidney and back fats as being better for Black Powder Lubes?  The reason the cosmetic industry wants the white tallow is consistency, odor, and resistance to oxidation.  You will note the study you were citing was comparing Cocoa Butter which is the number one fat used in cosmetics and body cleansing products requiring smooth cream textures and consistent results.  Tallow is also still used in a few ointments, but rarely. 

The needs of the Cosmetic and Health industry are very different and much more narrow than what we use it for.  If I had the choice of whiter tallow over the off white I would choose the white primarily because I would expect it to have less propensity to oxidize.  Which means I could store it for a few more years uncontrolled.  But when talking about tallow for lube it's sort of like someone asking what the best Black Powder for SASS shooting is.  Sure you can use Swiss, but why?  The differences in results are unmeasurable for CAS type events.  I tell people get the cheapest you can get.  If given the choice I would buy KIK or Swiss for the same price as Skirmish or Diamond Back.  I'll use anything, BUT I won't pay a premium for a "better" powder for CAS distances and target types.  That's my analogy...

Regards,
Mako

[john boy]

...have you read a white paper or a report somewhere that attributed the whiter tallows or the Kidney and back fats as being better for Black Powder Lubes?

No, but having used both white & yellow tallow, found that the white produces a better lube with the paraffin & beeswax.  And to be honest, I use the 40:40:20 lube for both black & smokeless reloads.  No lube starvation or leading with smokeless velocities in the mid 1500 fps range with 180gr 8.15x46R Schuetzen reloads

PS, you talk about cheap -  I use Skirmish, a Chinese firecracker powder for my CAS Shot shell reloads and just finishing up with KIK 2004 for my cartridges     Plus my Go To BPCR powder is now the 2010 lot of KIK.  Fifty rounds, 10 over the chrono and 40 from 500 to 200m, no tubing or patching and with no degradation in accuracy and then only 4 patches to clean the bore beats Swiss hands down
http://www.schuetzenpowder.com/forum/index.php?topic=107.0
http://www.schuetzenpowder.com/forum/index.php?topic=108.0

[Mako]

No, but having used both white & yellow tallow, found that the white produces a better lube with the paraffin & beeswax.  And to be honest, I use the 40:40:20 lube for both black & smokeless reloads.  No lube starvation or leading with smokeless velocities in the mid 1500 fps range with 180gr 8.15x46R Schuetzen reloads

PS, you talk about cheap -  I use Skirmish, a Chinese firecracker powder for my CAS Shot shell reloads and just finishing up with KIK 2004 for my cartridges     Plus my Go To BPCR powder is now the 2010 lot of KIK.  Fifty rounds, 10 over the chrono and 40 from 500 to 200m, no tubing or patching and with no degradation in accuracy and then only 4 patches to clean the bore beats Swiss hands down
http://www.schuetzenpowder.com/forum/index.php?topic=107.0
http://www.schuetzenpowder.com/forum/index.php?topic=108.0

CHEAP!!!  
Hah!  I use FFFg skirmish in my cap guns, Fg skirmish in my shotshells and FFg Diamond back in my cartridges over .38 spl or .44 Russian.

I had already read your reports about the KIK powders (good science by the way...).  I have been reading some excellent things about KIK and I think I'm going to just buy it next time for my FFFg, FFg and maybe my Fg powder, if I even get Fg anymore.  Skirmish (and they are always out of FFFg) is more expensive than Diamondback by 50 cents a pound but you can't mix and match Diamondback anymore. Kik is only $12.50 a pound and Swiss is RIDICULOUS...  The difference between the floor sweepings like Skirmish or Diamondback and KIK are fractions of a cent per load.

The main reason I have had fun using the super cheap powders is just to say how cheap they were.  They clean fine in my CAS guns and shoot where I point them.  I might as well cut down on the mish mash of what I have.  I still have Goex, Swiss, Schutzen and mainly keep those for comparison purposes.  A couple of powders like KIK FFG and FFFg would simplify things.  If I ever get serious about my BPCR shooting I'll probably stock up on 1 1/2 F KIK as well.

Regards,
Mako

[cpt dan blodgett]

Will the Dixie stuff keep in the house on the shelf or should I stick it in the Freezer.  Thinking my 5 remaining tubs will not be used for quite a while.  78 summers and 66 winters general temp range as I dont work for the electric company.  Have I ever mentioned I am cheap?

[rickk]

Mako,

I use the Powder, Inc 1F skirmish in my BP cannons when shooting blank loads (only Goex Cannon grade behind a ball).

At 1/4# a shot, the cost adds up. I guess I am cheap too ;-)

For a while they only had 3F and the cannon community rumbled. They magically started carrying it again.

It looks a little funny. I am guessing that they don't graphite tumble it but I am not sure. It works fine for cheapo me though.... "More Bang for the Buck"  (quite literally ;-).

Rick

[Buzzard II]

Rick,
Thanks for the tallow info.  I just ordered 10-1.8 lb pails.  Now to find the perfect C&B chamber mouth lube formula! I shoot N-SSa in Virginia and cas in jersey and pa. . I'm open for suggestions!  Has anyone tried their bison yet? How is it? Almost impossible to find it here in the peoples republik of new jersey.  Thanks!  Happy New Year to all!  Bob

[rickk]

Buzzard II,

14# Bees Wax to go with it :
http://www.ebay.com/itm/14-1-Pound-Blocks-Pure-USA-Triple-Filtered-Beeswax-/290650770864?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43ac22cdb0

Check out that seller's store if 14 pounds is not what you want. They have other quantities available 28# 10# 7# 3# 2# .

[rickk]

Paraffin, 50#, pretty good price, even with shipping, although I would check WallyMart first.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Candle-Making-Wax-Paraffin-Wax-130-General-Purpose-50-/290377608737?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item439bdaae21

[rickk]

And if you want some free lead ( approximately a Lyman #2 composition or maybe a bit softer) and live near Western Mass. come see me. Bring a shovel and some 5 gallon pails.

[rickk]

Letseeee... we have talked about cheap everything today... a good day to be cheap I guess.

The propane guy came this afternoon and filled my 500 gallon tank and left me a bill for about a zillion dollars... Guess I will be holding off another payday before I order the Star Lubing machine.

[Buzzard II]

Rick,
Thanks for the additional info.  What ratio of ingredients are you mixing?  I may take you up on the lead in the spring.  I'm in northeast New Jersey and the wife and I travel up to Springfield Mass, and on into Maine.  I'll start scrounging 5 gal pails.  Thanks!  Bob

[rickk]

Let me know before you are coming and I'll make sure there are at least a few hundred pounds available. Sometimes I go there and find I have been cleaned out... other times the place is overflowing. It is a high tech backstop that recovers the bullets without making dust. You just shovel them out.

Typical content depends on what has been going on the past few weeks. Sometimes it is mostly cast bullets, so it is Lyman #2 like- At other times there are lots of jacketed bullets mixed in so it gets a bit softer. The jackets just float to the top when you melt the stuff.

A 5 gallon pail filled to about the 4 gallon mark weighs about 100#.

[Buzzard II]

Rick,
Thank you!  It would not be until spring 2012 sometime.  I ordered the beeswax too!  I still have some parafin downstairs, but Wally World is close by.  What ratio do you mix it-tallow-beeswax-parafin?  I just want to use it in cap and ball to seal the end of the cylinder after I seat the ball.  Thanks again.
Bob

[rickk]

Classic formula is 2 parts paraffin, 2 parts tallow, 1 part beeswax.

Be warned that Tallow stinks big time when melted.... outdoor project. If you do it indoors it will smell for days.