80 yard targets

[Ranch 13]

If you're not using a blowtube between shots then you need to wipe the bore between shots or you will run into some serious fouling problems.
I'ld also be suspicious of some severe leading issues from shooting thru that hard fouling.

[Wagon Box Willy]

Is using a blow tube or wiping just a personal preference or is one proven more effective than the other?  I've been using the tube but have a Delrin wiping rod and arsenal patches on order from Arizona Sharpshooters just to try out that method as well.

Willy

[Ranch 13]

Mostly it depends on the load and  shooter preference.
Most folks don't use the tube properly. You have to get the air from way down deep in your lungs so it's moist, you also have to stay hydrated so you have plenty of moisture.
Wiping presents it's own set of problems and you have to work on your technigue to keep group sizes small. You can smuck up good groups just as easily with a bad wiping routine as any thing else.

[Otter]

Thanks, that seems to be the issue, my bullets are just too big to set out.

Willy

Actually, Willy, your bullets are just too big, period. You are engraving so high above the driving band because the .4515 diameter is bigger than the bore. I would get some different bullets from another source. There are a number of them (sources) out there.

As Ranch has said, if you are compressing your loads at the same time you are seating the bullet, stop that process and get a compression die/plug. If that is not what you are doing, it IS the bullet itself that is the problem.

Report back . . . and, yes, that is an order .

[Ranch 13]

Otter we've already qeeried him on that, they're coming out of the box from the guy that sent them to him that way.
Either a goofy mould or somebody got a bit ham handed running them thru the lubrisizer.....

[Wagon Box Willy]

Yes, bullets are too big and they are coming out of the box that way

But here's my procedure.

1. I am full length sizing new cases
- I am neck sizing only fire formed cases
2. I used a Lyman 22° chamfering tool which allows me to seat the bullet without belling the case
3. I am inserting a .025" white card and then compressing with a compression plug
4. I am using a neck expander plug
5. I am hand seating them
6. because of #2 I do not have to use the seating/crimping die at all

Willy

[Otter]

Willy,

Sounds as if you are doing it right, just with "bad" bullets. You'll probably do just fine once you get some good ones. Start casting your own if you can . I find casting to be fun, but I've never been called a conformist. I also punch my own wads and make my own lube. Some guys think doing what I do is tedious, I find it adds enjoyment to my part of the game.

Good luck, man.

[cpt dan blodgett]

Mixed results today with the sharps, group still 6 inches or so at 100 but was able to shoot all 8 of the test rounds I loaded without having to clean the chambers.  Little over much compression with 72 grains FFg the two 0,062 wads and a .160 lube cookie.  May try this load with a Dr Pepper wad and wax paper over the lube cookie.  Can probably get buy if I compress the powder to the proper depth with the Dr Pepper wad then use the bullet to shove in the lube cookie and wax paper.  Actually felt pretty cool being able to seat the cartidges easily.  One was kind hard in the middle of the string, but think that had more to do with the bullet being a little long.

Gave the bore a pretty good scrub yesterday with a brush wrapped with bronze wool till it was pretty snug going down the barrel.  Virtually no silver looking stuff came out.

I really do have a hard time seeing the front sight as well so that could be half or more of the problem.  February or so will get some decent sights.

May also try some FFFg Scheutzen.  Down to the last can of FFg and shot some of that today working with Rem NMA and 1860 Armies.  If I shoot a Buff, cant see wasting 500 grains of lead and 70 grains of powder on the insurance shot, when 1/3 the lead and powder will get the job don.

[Ranch 13]

If you're shooting 2f Schuetzen drop the charge to 65 grs and groups should tighten up considerable. But then if you're having sight trouble all bets are off.

[cpt dan blodgett]

Thanks for the tip, thinking the sights are not the problem its the eyes.  With the right light see the sights fine, the longer I look the poorer the focus.  It is really the back sight that tends to get extremely fuzzy.  Also know you focus on the front sight, but it helps if the rear sight is clear enough to achieve consistent alignment.

[Ranch 13]

Might try a needle file in the rear sight slot, widen it up and square it off a bit.

[cpt dan blodgett]

Have actually been thinking about using the 200 yard sight, stood up with slider up out of the way.  I can actually see better that way.  When I take a 6 O'clock hold on a std military bull 100 yard target end up hitting really near the top of the whole target, if I throw a high shot misses the paper.  Thinking maybe just mounting a repair center about a foot below actual target bull to keep me with a recognizable point of aim and plenty of target to hit.

It is funny go to the range in the am, have trouble seeing the sights.  Long about 3 or 4 pm when cleaning the guns in the back yard, in the shade the light is just right and can see the sights really well

My rear sight is only about a 1/4 inch wide sticking maybe .025 - .040 above spring that forms the circle the sight pivots in.  Have also considered just filing the sight down so I have a totally flat sight plane and cutting the notch.
Part of the problem is how small and indistinct the rear sight is when laid flat.  I am sure my progressive lenses are not helping the problem at all.  Back in the day had a pair of Single Vision shooting glasses that worked really well. Eyes really sucked but could see quite well with corrections something like 4.00 in one eye and 3.50 in the other for years and years.  Last new glasses with that correction was probably 2003.  Last year got an Eye exam and my vision actually improved a diopter in each eye so the old shooting glasses don't help anymore.  Sucks getting old but I guess it beats the heck out of the alternative.

The real answer will be a good tang sight with a hadley cup, and if shooting bullseyes a bunch of aperture inserts for the front sight.

[Ranch 13]

 I found that going from the progressive lenses to the lined bifocals helped the shooting a bunch.
Hadley's can be good, but a single eyecup with the large hole works just as well.
If you square that front sight up you can shoot pretty well with it to 700 yds or abit further using a tang sight, beyond 700 that front blade starts to cover to much of the target so you have to take a deep 6 oclock hold and sometimes there's really nothing there to aim at consistantly.

[cpt dan blodgett]

The reason I like aperture front sights with bulleyes is when you get everything lined up perfectly the bull appears to get really dark and clear.  A real good signal to break the shot.

Having said that. shot a lot of service rifle high power and could on occasion hit decently at 600 and 1000 if the wind was not too switchy with a post. 

[Wagon Box Willy]

Received my bullets from Montana Bullet Works so hopefully I'll get some time this weekend to try loading some up.

Willy

[Wagon Box Willy]

So I just tried the new Postell and got the following.  The bullet just kisses the lands, no engraving.

Diameter in front of the driving band is .446-7 (old bullet was .4515)
A = 1.518
B = 1.417
C = 2.935 COAL
D = .582

70gr KIK 2f = .118 compression at max COAL

Seems I now have some room to play.

Willy

[Ranch 13]

Bet you'll notice a huge difference in group size.

[Wagon Box Willy]

The Saeco 645 measures out to

a = 1.612
B = 1.244
C = 2.856
D = .488

70gr KIK 2f compression = .021 at max COAL

[cpt dan blodgett]

Willy
Did you ever make it to the range with your new bullets??

[Wagon Box Willy]

Dan, unfortunately no.  Between the cold and my work schedule I just haven't had a chance....which is kinda sad since the 80yd range is right outside my back door. 

Willy