Western 3 Gun

[Itty Bitty Storm]

Finding my way around these sites is easier than I expected.  I found a site from the Cowboy Page on my husband's website that is called Western 3 Gun.  Looking around the site I found a page showing the payout for winners of the World Cup 05.  Here is what it shows.

The cash payouts for the Men's Open shooters will be as follows:

1st: $1,000
2nd: $700
3rd: $500
4th: $300
5th: $200

The cash payouts for the Women's Open shooters will be as follows:

1st: $750
2nd: $500
3rd: $350
4th: $250
5th: $150

Am I the only one who has a problem with this?

[Itty Bitty Storm]

I am quite sure this topic will receive no replies from the men.  They kind of view this in the same light as; "Honey, does this outfit make me look fat"?  LOL.

[Camille Eonich]

You would probably get a better response if you posted the question on the W3G forum at their site.

[Irish Red O'Toole]

I'll take a swing at it.....

IBS,
If you're meaning the different payout structure, it was because there were only 7 Open Division Ladies and 30 Open Division Men.  More $$ to spread around for the guys.  Come out next year and shoot "Open" and add to their pot!!

Just as a side note, EVERYONE that shot in the Open Class (Men or Women) at W3G World Cup took home a prize with a minimum value of $150!  That means down to that #30 shooter in the Men's Division too!  All giving back as much as possible to the shooter.

What did I win?  I won a custom cowboy hat from Sierra Hat Company!!

[Itty Bitty Storm]

Mr. O'Toole.  Thank you very much for explaining this and for shedding some light on this issue.  As I can understand what you have said here, would it not have been more fair to just say there are a total of 37 contestants or shooters and divide the money accordingly?  Secondly, did the women pay the same fee to shoot as the men did?  This of course would make a big difference.  If the men and women paid the same fee, then the prize payout should be equal to all shooters no matter the category.  If the women paid a lesser fee than the men, then these payouts would be acceptable.  Do you understand my point of view here?

Please understand that I am not complaining here or trying to start a fight, I am just trying to understand how this works.

[Doc Shapiro]

As Red stated, the Ladies Open Category had less entries than Men's Open.

The money that came in as entry fees for those 2 categories funded the prizes for those categories, however, the monies remained seperate.  With having to buy prizes for all of the entrants, and having to cover all the match related expenses, that's the way it broke out.  Want more money for the Ladies?  Then we need more Ladies to come out and shoot!

A decision was made early on to keep the money for each division seperate and not comingle them for prizes.  Right or wrong, that was how it was decided. 

The more Ladies that come out and shoot, the more money there will be for prizes in that division.

On a side note, every shooter came home with an award.

Doc

[Irish Red O'Toole]

The Ladies Division was sponsored (unlike the Men's Division).  So that sponsor money along with their prize table had to come from the total money collected for their division.  Yes, they paid the same amount to shoot, but since there were significantly fewer ladies, there was significantly less money to spread around.  If more ladies sign up as "Open" shooters next year, more money will be available to use for that division and then maybe the payouts will be closer to equal.  Hope that makes sense.

[Howdy Doody]

"On a side note, every shooter came home with an award."
What Doc said.

IBS, you are of course referring just to the open class shooters. That class is the shoot what ya brung class and then there is the rest of the fold. The regular style classes that break down in age groups, or you can shoot black powder in cartridge or cap and ball. In fact the classes in the amatuer ranks pretty much mirror what you find in most SASS matches, except for the more age breakdowns.
Back to what Doc S. said. Everyone that shot World Cup 2005 went home with money or prize in the open class and every single amatuer took home a beautiful plaque with the position they finished their class engraved onto it. No one left empty handed. I would have been satisfied with just the huge shooters packet everyone got. It was in a large canvas shell bag and there was enough in there even if they hadn't slipped a nice T shirt into it too. Everyone walked away with something. That in itself is pretty unique.
This is all sort of nice, but the real award was the fun of shooting amatuer ( yup, I am amatuer class) in a new style of CAS match. You don't have to run, I don't, but it is still  a lot of fun to move forward shooting targets to the left and right and being able to shoot those that have a bonus center and trying to get them. That rewards accuracy. Being able to plot to yourself the best way to shoot the course/stage  and in what order is fun too. You don't like the angle or distance from a target? BY all means move. You can do something about it by moving, getting closer and getting the shot you want. Movement is something that is different, but it is not a track meet. In the amatuer ranks most walked the stage and took their time trying for the bonus centers and it is surprising how many can get a clean match out of it. Fun is the name of the game, not money. The more that come out to play, the more will go home with a happy grin that takes a couple days to go away.

[Capt. Jake Cutter]

I'll echo what my good friend Howdy said.

It is a blast and is exactly what you make of it. You don't want to run, don't. You don't want to blaze, don't. You don't like the money part, don't sign up in the open class. I cannot and will not begrudge anyone who shoots in the open class, because that is the choice they made. Does not, will not effect me in any way shape or form.

Speaking for myself, I have never been treated better at any match.
With the climate of gun grabbers out there today, it is my feeling that every shooting sport should be embraced and supported. W3G gives cowboy shooters one more opportunity to wear cowboy clothes, shoot cowboy guns and play an old game a new way.

I also cannot help but think that W3G will make me a better SASS shooter as well.

Just my thoughts......BTW, I really like CAS City! Good site, great information and good people. Marshal and Marshalette keep up the good work!

[jiminy criquet]

Being an individual that consistently shoots in last place, I like the idea of prizes for everyone

One thing that somewhat takes the fun out of SASS matches for me is how some contestants are so intent on scoring well that they seem to have forgotten what CAS is all about, the fun aspect of it.  I understand the desire to 'win', but as someone who puts zero practice in between matches, and simply enjoys getting out to shoot once in a while, the gamers in this sport seem to be ruling the roost in SASS scored matches.  I'm all for doing away with squib loads, etc., and making the stages more 'action' oriented as opposed to simply shooting at close targets as fast as one can.
I think of some of the gunfights seen in western movies lately, such as the excellent one portrayed in the movie 'Open Range', and would love to see wide and long shooting bays that would allow a person to wander thru a 'town' and engage enemy targets, as opposed to standing at a firing line and simply going thru the guns in slightly varied order.

[Howdy Doody]

Howdy Jiminy,
Yup, I know where you are coming from pard. I am not a real good shooter myself. No where near as fast as the Duke, er, Capt. Cutter of course.  I do however shoot a lot,  and once I figured out that shooting a big match isn't much different than a small match, I have found I enjoy shooting all the big matches I can fit in. That is because of mostly getting out and shooting with the many friends I have made over the years in CAS. SASS/NCOWS/WASA/W3G it is all cowboys dressing and shooting single action guns, and it sure is fun. Fun! that is the real name of the game or why else would we do it?
So, I am like you and don't many awards. I like to think that after a match I get a reward, sort of had a good time and participated in a sport with folks I really enjoy being with kind of thing. Of course lighting off a smokey barrage with my weaponry doesn't hurt on the fun meter either. Yup, the folks at W3G World Cup paid back to all. Open class with cash and great prizes, like Dillon 650s and the like, but to recognize every single participant is not only cowboy, but everyone goes away a winner. Me? I got third in a class of 3. The others in my catagory I know well. We possied together and had a great time. I could not ask for more, but there at the awards  I am picking up a plaque. Make you feel good? Yup, it does. So as far as W3G goes they are new and they are trying their best to put on a safe and fun match with a bit of a twist. 

[jiminy criquet]

For instance, I'd love to see a stage where you started at the firing line with a rifle firing around the corner of a wall at a target(s) from a kneeling position, with points subtracted if you exposed more than a certain percentage of your body (i.e., you'd be virtually 'killed' if you exposed too much of yourself).  Then secure the rifle and advance downrange to a water trough (with points again subtracted if you took too long to get prone behind the water trough).  Then firing pistol(s) at target(s) while in a prone position behind the water trough, firing from above or around the trough (and again having points deducted if you exposed too much of yourself to the imaginary 'enemy' or raised yourself out of the prone position).  And finally securing your pistol(s) in their holsters, grabing an empty staged shotgun, and advancing toward a closed door that you had to burst through (i.e. quickly open in whatever way you like ...kicking it open being the preferred method) and quickly engaging the remaining target(s) with a shotgun (standing or kneeling position, again with points subtracted for taking too long to advance downrange and/or exposing yourself while engaging the targets.  Sort of like the old 'cowboy and indians' games one played as a kid.

Got anything like that in W3G?

Or better yet, have some remotely activated paintball guns shooting back at the various firing positions throughout the course.  You get 'hit', and you're dq'd for that stage.  Now that would be a hoot.  And it would truly be 'cowboy action shooting'

I'd love to see the standings of 'gamers' who excell at rapid firing at close targets after a match such as the one above.  I've got a feeling the 'winners' would be a whole new class of people.

[Itty Bitty Storm]

Well now, you guys have gotten away from the topic, lol.  It's OK, I don't mind.  Boys will be boys!

Thank you all so much for all this wonderful information.  This really sounds like an exciting club (or is it organization) to belong to.  I don't know if my husband is aware of W3G, but I will sure bring it to his attention.  He really likes all this bang, bang, shoot em up stuff.  I now fully understand the concept here and would have to say that the folks who put this all togehter really thought this through, unlike some other outfit I'm aware of, lol.

Thanks again.  You are all so wonderful.

[Irish Red O'Toole]

I dunno Jiminey.  Lead Dispencer has won EOT, Winter Range and a whole passle of other SASS trophys AND won the W3G World Cup the last two years running.  Good shooters just are good shooters regardless of the game.

[Doc Shapiro]

Jiminy, that sounds more IDPA like.  Having to use cover and such.  W3G doesn't do that.  Use of cover becomes subjective according to the RO and can't be consistant from shooter to shooter or posse to posse.  That's my biggest gripe with IDPA.

As for who will win, it'll be those that work hard and practice the skills needed to do well at the game.  Probably the same folks that win now.  They practice.

Doc

[Bitterwheat]

Jiminy that all sounds good for a young guy, but if shooting went to all that bending and getting up and down. I'm afaird I would have to hang my guns up. With a bad heart that is only doing 20% of what is suppose to be doing, and arturic knees and hips. that would leave me out. At least the way things are now I can at least have fun. I'm Planning on joining W3G, so I hope they don't change ant thing.

[Irish Red O'Toole]

I wouldn't worry about it, Bitterwheat>

[Itty Bitty Storm]

OK.  You men can have this post now.  I'm finished with it!   Did I do that right?

[Big John Denny]

Itty, I understand your concern, but I believe all the contestants that signed up for the open class, both male and female, knew how the prize money was going to be distributed. In that case, they must have agreed because they did sign up and participated.

My own club, the Griffen Gun Club, also host club of the Doc Holiday Immortals, will be hosting a W3G event the first Sunday of September. I plan on going out and seeing what goes on. May even take an old gun or two.

[Doc Shapiro]

Big John, you dang well better take some guns, ammo, leather, cart, etc. out and give it a try!  I don't know about you, but I can't stand going someplace where there's shootin and not participating.

Doc