Reply to Duke Eldorado Rig

Curley Cole · December 12, 2011, 01:47:53 AM

For some reason I can't reply on the end of that thread tonite, so I will just comment here..(I am tired and in pain so may not be looking right.....)

anyways, here is a pix of my Duke rigs, and Outrider was correct, they are both El Paso Saddlery. One is about 25yr old and one is about 30 yr old. I had to send back the "newer" belt cuz they sent me one with reddish leather, and I wanted the creme like the first rig...

They are money belt, and the loops as you can see are not sewn all the way thru. They are very comfortable and in fact I wore one last month at the SQMR match.

if any one has any specific questions or want a better pix of view just give a holler.

thanks for lettin me hang out in this forum, I used to do leather and due to the arthritis can't anymore, so I just enjoy you guys great efforts.
curley

will ghormley · December 13, 2011, 10:17:51 PM

Hey Curley,

It's not just you, I couldn't reply on the other thread either. Hope you get to feelin' better.

As for the money belts, I officially have room in the pack to include patterns for the El Dorado belt, and for the Duke's personal money belt. It's tight, but I'm goin' to be able to get it all in there. And, now I have to get back to work and make it happen!

Will

will ghormley · December 18, 2011, 11:19:41 AM

Got the Duke "El Dorado" pattern done. It will include nine holster patterns for all the regular pistols, the "El Dorado" belt, plus, as a bonus, Duke's personal suede folded money belt pattern. This will probably be available at TLF outlets before February, but they will be in the February flier. You can see the updated webpage at this link:

http://www.willghormley-maker.com/ElDoradoRig.html

Will

Massive · December 18, 2011, 11:34:10 AM

I'll have my nose to the glass when that happens. I want the first one with "my" moneybelt! Great work!

Ten Wolves Fiveshooter · December 18, 2011, 11:46:59 AM

Good deal Will, I'll be getting your pattern too.

tEN wOLVES

Long Juan · December 18, 2011, 12:21:10 PM

Count me among those who will be getting this pattern and making at least one of the money belts if not holsters also. Thanks Will.

will ghormley · December 18, 2011, 03:19:58 PM

I also got an email today from a guy who said I had the wrong rig from the movie. He had museum photos of a rig that was apparently labeled as bein' used in "El Dorado". The belt looks like the same belt, but with better details. The holster, however, didn't have a skirt loop around the holster.

If the holster is from the movie, then the loop was removed after it was used in "El Dorado", or, there were two holsters used - one with, and one without the holster loops. I don't know...

But, I've asked for more clarification on the origins of the photos and the labeling. With his permission, I will include his information on the "El Dorado" site, along with movie stills of Duke and actress Michele Carey showing the rig, as well as the museum photos. If the belt is really the one from the movie, my pattern can be modified to reflect the differences. The primary difference in the belt being the billet, and the stitching that holds the chape in place. It is very interesting to look at the detailed photos and what can be seen in the movie stills.

Will

outrider · December 18, 2011, 04:08:16 PM

I am not sure about which belt and holster he wore in El Dorado, however I do know that he did not wear what is commonly referred to as the DUKE RIG in his last movie...The Shootist...that rig was a two piece Hunter holster (which does not have a skirt) and a 2 inch Hunter belt.

will ghormley · December 19, 2011, 12:07:12 AM

Just got the update to the "El Dorado" page done. Some interesting original photos of the gear from the movie, as well as movie stills from "El Dorado".

http://willghormleymaker.homestead.com/ElDoradoRig.html

It is something of a mystery.
Will

Curley Cole · December 19, 2011, 01:37:53 AM

Will

Great pix of the Duke, his rig and Michelle (always had a crush on her) I have always been fasicnated by the Duke rig (rigs...) The one from El Dorado stands out in my mind because it had the "cross stitch" that makes the belt adjustable. My Mattell Fanner Fifty had the same method of adjustment...cool.

Duke had to have a couple of rigs. The one we most often saw was without the "crossstitch". And I hadn't noticed the skirt that you pointed out.

In Dennis Adlers book on John Bianchi there is a really good picture of what John lists as "Dukes original rig from the 40s thru 70". It is the rig we mostly remember. (and it also shows that the catridge loops were sewn all the way thru the belt. I have had email discussions about the "original" duke rig with Bianchi and he believes Dukes original rig was made by Bob Brown (Browne)

I got to see the hand written letter Duke sent to John Bianchi requesting a new rig and included a hand drawn example of how he wanted the cant of the holster.

Iven tho I don't do leather anymore, I may have to get one of your patterns just for my collection.
have a good Christmas my friend.
curley
Ps here is a link to the actual auction of that holster:
http://entertainment.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=7045&lotNo=44010

Crossdrawnj · December 20, 2011, 04:30:13 PM

Will:
I'll have to pick up one of these patterns too. I have several of your holster patterns, as well as the patterns for your belts. I used them to space the cartridge loops on a belt I made several years ago for a holster pattern I made myself to match. Very useful information.

Being a big fan of the Duke, I'm looking forward to this. Tandy does not list the pattern package on their website for New for 2012 yet. FYI

Crossdraw.

outrider · December 20, 2011, 04:42:27 PM

Correction...

I made a mistake in my comment about the Hunter two piece holster. it does indeed have a skirt however the skirt is separate from the belt loop and is srewed to the back of the holster body ...the belt loop portion had two line 24 type snaps and a chicago screw which were used to attach the skirt to the belt loop for retention thus the tern "two piece holster". Sorry for the confusion.

Crossdrawnj · December 21, 2011, 01:10:25 PM

FWIW: I purchased a Duke rig from a vendor on Gunbroker several years ago and had some interesting conversations about his JW reproductions he makes. He told me he copied them from an original that was in the Cowboy museum in OK or the Autry museum, I can't remember which one. The one I bought looks very close to the original that was featured in the NRA's magazine, American Shooter a couple of years ago. He also offers a copy of the El Dorado belt and holster. He explained when they started shooting the movie, the Duke's belt had fell apart and they needed a quick replacement. The adjustable belt in El Dorado was the result.

The vendor was Hilltop Leather (at the time) out of Wilkes Barre, Pa. He is still selling on GB. Just type in "John Wayne" and you'll be able to search through his stuff. The rig is very nice. I was disapointed that the leather wasn't heavier that I was led to believe when I ordered it.

Crossdraw

Massive · December 21, 2011, 05:46:22 PM

Great pictures!. Funny how if you tried to sell an authentic Duke rig these days, it would have to look a lot nicer than that one.

outrider · December 21, 2011, 06:43:33 PM

Crossdraw,

How heavy was the leather used on your rig? I use 9 oz for that rig but mine is also lined with pigskin.

Crossdrawnj · December 22, 2011, 09:31:35 AM

Outrider:
It appears he used two thicknesses of about 3-4 oz. leather. The belt is suede folded. Billets and bullet loops sewn through.

I'll try to get a pic up, but my daughter will have to do it.

Crossdraw.

outrider · December 22, 2011, 12:42:21 PM

4/5 oz sounds about right for the money belt...but I think that is a little light for the holsters

Massive · December 22, 2011, 02:40:29 PM

What is the deal with the rifle cartridges in the cartridge loops. Are they 45-70? In general not something he shot in his movies, though I suppose in some of the Cavalry epics, and theoretical cavalry back stories he would have used them.

Curley Cole · December 22, 2011, 03:06:07 PM

M

In the belts I show at the begining of this thread, I have 38/357 loops in them. The large cartridge you see is one of the earlier Duke Comm catridges in 32/40,

now it the Dukes rig and some of mine with 45 loops it is indeed a 45/70 round. You will see it in almost every belt Duke wore. and his explaination was he was told by old tyme wranglers on the movie sets that they would position a round as a "place keeper" and it would tell them at a touch how much ammo one had left.

Some folks thought that as stupid and why waste a loop with a round they couldn't use. For that I had no answer, I just knew what the Duke told us as to why he did it.

hope that answers yer question
curley

will ghormley · December 22, 2011, 05:47:09 PM

The .45-70 also comes in handy if you have to throw a round way downrange from your converted 1852 linen cartridge Sharps.

The pattern I built is based on using 8-9 oz. for the outside of the holster and 4-5 oz. for the inside. It's a pretty stout holster when it's all put together, but if a feller wanted a lighter weight holster, just use lighter leather. The holster wouldn't be as tight, but it has a hammer thong, and the way the holster is shaped, the pistol can't really fall down deep in the pouch.

Will