Buggered Side Plate - Just how do you remove them cleanly?

Loophole LaRue · November 20, 2011, 03:04:04 PM

I decided to finally crack open my Henry - 5 years of shooting and I had never opened it. Backed out the lever screw, and using a padded rod and a plastic mallet, persuaded the right side plate downward. Everything was fine until the last blow, when the rod penetrated the pad, hit the inside edge of the top of the plate, and sliced off a section of the brass (it's thin there, right at the edge).

Ordered a new plate from Midway (ouch).

So..what's the right way to remove/install these plates? Wooden dowel tapped by hammer? It's a sloping edge, not particularly easy to budge, and soft.

BTY - fairly clean inside. Light cleaning took care of the dirt. Anything else I should do while I have her open?

LL

Forty Rod · November 20, 2011, 08:55:52 PM

They're very slightly bevelled. Off up. On down. And they are sharp enough to cut to the bone.

Trailrider · November 20, 2011, 09:24:10 PM

Yup. Kinda like removing dovetail sights off Winchesters. Then there was the guy years back who wrote into the gunsmithy writing for a gun magazine now long out of print. Seems the gent was trying to take the barrel off an Enfield rifle. He tried everything...barrel vice, lots of rosin, action wrench. Still wouldn't budge. Gunsmith answered, "Breathe there a man with sould so dead who never to himself has said... 'Dammit, that's a lefthand thread!'"

Coffinmaker · November 21, 2011, 11:14:03 AM

Well, your not gonna be happy with the replacement side plate. Last time I ordered one, it was just a slab of basically unshaped brass. Good luck. I have a hard plastic (filled nylon) /rubber mallet for removing Henry side plates. T really helps if the. Rifle is clamped in some form of padded vice. Drive them up to remove and down to reinstall. Also work the mallet front and back to keep the side plate from "cocking" in the dovetails.

Coffinmaker

Loophole LaRue · November 23, 2011, 06:46:01 AM

Aw, you're kidding me!!!! The replacement from Uberti does not match the original?

So, now it looks like I drove the plate down, instead of up, to remove. Guess that explains why it required so much force. ( I forgot the first Law of Mechanics - if it doesn't move easily, stop and re-assess.) I suppose that may mean that I distorted the dovetails on the receiver....awwww.

LL

Loophole LaRue · November 23, 2011, 07:28:59 AM

Quote from: Coffinmaker on November 21, 2011, 11:14:03 AM
Well, your not gonna be happy with the replacement side plate. Last time I ordered one, it was just a slab of basically unshaped brass. Good luck. I have a hard plastic (filled nylon) /rubber mallet for removing Henry side plates. T really helps if the. Rifle is clamped in some form of padded vice. Drive them up to remove and down to reinstall. Also work the mallet front and back to keep the side plate from "cocking" in the dovetails.

Coffinmaker

You got me all worked up....I don't need or want a slab of unfinished brass. Looked again at the Midway website, where I ordered - nothing about condition, no image. I just assumed it was a direct replacement.

Went over to VYI - clearly called out as "unfinished".

Where did you order? Think I better call Midway and ask....

Thanks for the heads up.

LL

Coffinmaker · November 23, 2011, 08:53:47 AM

That I know of, there is no source for a "finished" Henry side plate

If the "replacement" is useable at all, your going to learn to be a metal smith real quick.
I cut up the replacement Henry side plate I had for other projects and just live with the little dings on the original.

Coffinmaker

Forty Rod · November 23, 2011, 09:35:11 AM

Could you have someone braze up the worst of the dings and finish them to fit? It would be less work and you'd have the adjacent metal as a guide.

I've never done this, but it seems I heard of someone doing it. I don't recall who nor the context so I might have my head -- -- ---.

Loophole LaRue · November 23, 2011, 12:34:02 PM

Quote from: Coffinmaker on November 23, 2011, 08:53:47 AM
That I know of, there is no source for a "finished" Henry side plate If the "replacement" is useable at all, your going to learn to be a metal smith real quick.
I cut up the replacement Henry side plate I had for other projects and just live with the little dings on the original.

Coffinmaker

Good news!!

I called Midway about the finished/unfinished question; they referred me to Taylor's, the importer. The folks at Taylor's inform me that the side plates arrive FULLY FINISHED..

Whew.

LL

SGT John Chapman · November 23, 2011, 12:44:49 PM

Anyone know how close VTIs side plates are for future refrence??....

Mako · November 23, 2011, 02:08:13 PM

Quote from: Loophole LaRue on November 23, 2011, 12:34:02 PM
Good news!!

I called Midway about the finished/unfinished question; they referred me to Taylor's, the importer. The folks at Taylor's inform me that the side plates arrive FULLY FINISHED..

Whew.

LL

I hope that is true, but I can tell you from my experience that side plates are not completely interchangeable. I had two of my '66s apart on the bench once and accidentally tried to put the side plate of one on the other. It definitely wouldn't fit. I also have a '66 carbine on which the side plate sits lower than the surface outside the cut where the side plate fits. If I wanted to make them even I would have to either spend hours filing and then sanding or machining then sanding. I don't have two Henry's, But I'm sure they are not the same either.

I have purchased brass trigger guards to retrofit to Uberti Richards Type II revolvers that came with steel trigger guards instead of the brass style the originals would have had. It takes a LOT of fitting to take these uninstalled parts and do the hand fitting that is done at the factory. On the other hand I have mixed and matched Navy size grip assemblies that were fit to one revolver to replace Army size grips for friends with smaller hands to try out. As anyone who has tried this will tell you it is a hit or miss affair as to whether or not they will fit. The key here is that they were "fit" to one frame before I tried the exchange, they weren't raw parts that had never had any fitting done to them. You find the same thing with internal parts, you can often swap parts from one to another, or sometimes with minimal fitting; but if you get a virgin part it takes a lot of fitting to get it to work.

The fit of the grips is not a precise dovetail affair that the side plates are. I think you can do it, but I have a feeling you are going to report back it took a "little" work to make them fit. Let's hope I am being overly pessimistic and you get the "golden bullet" of a side plate for fitting.

Regards,
Mako

Dakota Widowmaker · December 11, 2011, 01:31:25 PM

Quote from: Forty Rod on November 20, 2011, 08:55:52 PM
They're very slightly bevelled. Off up. On down. And they are sharp enough to cut to the bone.

YES, THEY WILL SLICE OPEN YOUR HAND VERY EASILY!!! Wear gloves...

Abilene · December 11, 2011, 02:05:39 PM

Quote from: Loophole LaRue on November 23, 2011, 12:34:02 PM
Good news!!

I called Midway about the finished/unfinished question; they referred me to Taylor's, the importer. The folks at Taylor's inform me that the side plates arrive FULLY FINISHED..

Whew.

LL

Sounds like Uberti makes (or made) two different versions of the replacement side plates. I recall some time ago seeing in the parts bin at Cimarron a side plate that was more like Coffinmaker described. Had the basic outline of a sideplate, but still needed a LOT of machining to be useable. If you get the finished part, hopefully it will be close to fitting, which based on Mako's experience might be iffy. Good luck.

Loophole LaRue · March 02, 2012, 11:05:32 AM

Well, 3 months +, and still no sign of the sideplate....

Things must be s-l-o-w in Italy......

LL

cactus joe · March 02, 2012, 03:02:00 PM

loophole, after reading back through this thread, and seeing how things have gone for you, i'm glad i gave up on trying to get my side plates off a few months ago. I think my side plates are, one with the receiver and unless some serious problem develops i'm not EVEN messing with them. I was just thinking back in the day if in the middle of a skirmish something went wrong with a henry, and the side plates had to be removed your best bet might be to whittle up a sling shot rather trying to repair your henry!I can't imagine anyone ever tearing one down in the field. Let us know when or if you ever get your new ones and how they fit.

James Hunt · March 02, 2012, 03:20:56 PM

Sorry about your misfortune, I have always used a simple wooden dowel and whatever hammer was laying around without incident.

If nothing else resolves your issue I'd just put it back together and tell folks you paid extra for a period distressed appearance. My partner in crime has a 66 carbine that looks like he took a logging chain to it, shoots like a charm and people are always asking if it is an original.

Pettifogger · March 02, 2012, 05:17:49 PM

Have you got any pictures of the damaged part? Is this a major FUBAR or mostly a cosmetic issue?

Loophole LaRue · March 03, 2012, 01:25:54 PM

Quote from: James Hunt on March 02, 2012, 03:20:56 PM
Sorry about your misfortune, I have always used a simple wooden dowel and whatever hammer was laying around without incident.

True...and I did the same; except I stupidly tried to drive it in the wrong direction.

It is essentially cosmetic, but it's pretty bad. I really don't want anything THIS distressed, especially since it's not EVENLY distressed. Looks like some fool tried to remove the plate, oh, in the wrong direction....

I'll update it when the new plate arrives.

LL

litl rooster · March 03, 2012, 01:26:52 PM

Quote from: Loophole LaRue on March 02, 2012, 11:05:32 AM

Well, 3 months +, and still no sign of the sideplate....

Things must be s-l-o-w in Italy......

LL

Try Old West Scrounger in Martinsburg WV

evodude · March 06, 2012, 07:28:38 AM

I bought a sideplate from Old West Scrounger to alter for my .22 1866 Uberti, and no way would it fit. 1/8 " too short on the top. Money was cheerfully refunded, but disapointed non the less. He claims it fits Uberti's, but wasnt close on mine. If you dont have machining skills I dont think Id attempt to fit a blank myself. Believe me, brass is pretty soft to work, Id stick with the origional one and have the piece of brass that got chunked out filled with new brass and filed to fit. it can be done, and brass lends itself to shaping easily. Also by far the cheapest way to go.