More modern gun question

[GunClick Rick]

I have this shooter,a 221 xp100 Fireball by Remington,it also has a 22lr adaptor,it's just a fitting that goes in the barrel and you can use a 22 for practice as the 221 is a costly round.As you see it has a Simmons scope on it.My question is,do you think i can put a more updated site like a red dot or something,or do you think it fine with what it has.

I apreciate any thoughts you all might have.I have this one and the Remington 22 rifle of the same stock color that loads from the stock so it has a buddy

[Pettifogger]

The Fireball was designed as a long range varmint pistol.  Red dot sights like those on IPSC pistols usually have fairly large dots and no magnification.  They are really not suitable for a long range gun.  You need a little magnification to take advantage of the gun's long range potential.  Hopefully, you have the original rear sight.  Makes a big difference for its collector value.

[GunClick Rick]

I believe i do,how much does that make it worth $200.00 Is the Simmons a pretty good scope? I only shot it once and that was uphill at a metal plate target,i hit it,just don't know where,we never went up and looked.got busy workin on the mountain ranch and forgot

[Mako]

Rick,
Pettifogger is right...

The average red dot will be about 4 MOA which means it will cover 4 inches of your target at 100yds,  at 50 yds. it is 2 inches. Great sights for quick acquisition in actual combat or action shooting but not the best choice for small target shooting.  You can get 2 MOA dots and you can get magnifiers that go behind the optics, but the dots still appear a bit ragged.  The EOTech is the sharpest because it is a projected holographic reticle (I think they even have one at 1 MOA), but it is expensive.

The Simmons can be good sights, does it have the correct eye relief for the position you will shoot the pistol in?  You need a pistol scope.  I still have one XP-100 that started life out about 35 years ago as a .221.  It's now barreled with a wildcat called a 7 X 50 LG which is a modified shoulder .30 Remington case necked to 7mm.  The bolt face is opened up and a Sako extractor installed since the extractor groove is now too shallow for any Remington extractor when the face was opened from Ø.384 (a .221 has a Ø.378 rim) to Ø.427.  When we were working out the most accurate loads for metallic silhouette I temporarily mounted a scope which I believe is a 7X Burris with a fine crosshair.  I don't even think they make that one anymore, you might be able to get a used one.  

I have seen some Simmons scopes on less expensive guns like 788s or Savages and those boys kept right up with the guys shooting expensive rigs on prairie dogs and rock chucks.  Most Simmons scopes tend to have the coarser stepped down cross hairs which are great for deer hunting but too coarse for shots over 100yds on small varmints like prairie dogs.

What are you planning on using that pistol for anyway?  That determines the sights or optics you need.

~Mako

[GunClick Rick]

Right now mostly target with the 22lr adaptor,but my buddy and i were going to use it at his ranch for coyote,his place is up in the hills,he has alot of deer up there too but probably to fast for deer?..I paid 500 for it and mostly got it becuase my buddy had one and i had to keep up ya know.Back when i had extra cash and a job,i'm on a fixed income now,my wife has it fixed so i don't have one

Wished i had some kind of stock for it.Hard to look through that scope at arms length,came with two of the xp stocks

[Mako]

Right now mostly target with the 22lr adaptor,but my buddy and i were going to use it at his ranch for coyote,his place is up in the hills,he has alot of deer up there too but probably to fast for deer?..I paid 500 for it and mostly got it becuase my buddy had one and i had to keep up ya know.Back when i had extra cash and a job,i'm on a fixed income now,my wife has it fixed so i don't have one

Not too fast for deer, too small... The .221 Fireball won't get more than about 2,800 fps with a 50 gr bullet and about 2,900 with a 45 gr.  The 55 gr bullets will be 2,700 or less. Those are varmint bullets, not deer hunting rounds.  In a lot of states you can't legally hunt with even a .223. I know people hunt with .222s and even hornets but they place their shots perfectly.  You can kill a world record Grizzly with a .22 Long (not long rifle), but it is a poor choice.

A fireball makes a great coyote cartridge.  Some people use full metal jackets and make sure the velocity is below, 2,700 fps.  That is the magic number for shedding jacket, tumbling and so forth.  Below 2,700 fps it becomes a Super .22 mag which usually does limited pelt damage.  Others choose a frangible 45 grain bullets and hope for bullet disintegration and not making a large exit hole (or holes in many cases).  One hole in a pelt is better if you are selling hides.  Two .22 caliber holes is probably the next best.

~Mako

[GunClick Rick]

That's great info thanks,i'll copy and past this in my drafts to look at alter too.All i know is it's a loud booger and we can't use it up there in the summer becuase it is so dry.

Did they not create this round for olympic shooting?

[Mako]

That's great info thanks,i'll copy and past this in my drafts to look at alter too.All i know is it's a loud booger and we can't use it up there in the summer becuase it is so dry.

Did they not create this round for olympic shooting?

Rick,
You're confusing it with the .220 Russian.  That was used in the '60s against the .222.  But it is best known for use as the base brass in the 22 PPC and 6mm PPC bench rest cartridges.  The .220 R has a small primer pocket which has been shown to be more desirable.  The body and rim diameter is similar to the 7.62 X 39 round.

The .221 was introduced by Remington for the XP-100 after trying the .222.  The short barrel was more efficient with the shortened case.  You actually get more velocity with less fireball and blast with a .221Fireball than a .222 Rem.  I said it was "introduced" because there had been some work done earlier by Gene at Armalite.  Later the original "arm pistol" (not designed by Mark Gwinn as everyone thinks) used the .221 cartridge.  The Arm Pistol started out life as the Individual Multi-Purpose Weapon IMP-221 / GUU-4/P.  See the 221 there?  The caliber was .221 Fireball.

This is an IMP221 from 1968:


and this is a "Bushmaster" from circa 1972, actually still an MGI before Bushmaster was formed. It is .223 (5.56 X 45).


There were several variants and they were tying to sell these to the Air Force.  The 5.56 had a serious fireball problem with the short barrel and a cartridge 5.56 X 36mm was tried. Sounds like a .221 Fireball to me.

The .221 Fireball is a "chicken or the egg" thing.  Remington did introduce it in the early '60s, Colt's used it in the GUU-4/P program in the late '60s, but there are records of Armalite playing around with sub 45mm cartridges in the '50s including a 5.56 X 36mm version.  I think It was invented by Armalite, but the same can be said for so may other wildcat cartridges.  Probably an engineer at Dupont or Remington who worked for Fairchild in the '50s had worked with it or heard of it.

~Mako

[GunClick Rick]

I think the guy on the grassy nole had one

[Steel Horse Bailey]

I think the guy on the grassy nole had one

Just one? 

[Montana Slim]

I think the guy on the grassy nole had one

Go there & look around...you'll likely find 5.56mm brass 

Slim