uniform questions

[G.W. Strong]

those were very helpful. Was the star pattern regulation? if so when?

[JimBob]

those were very helpful. Was the star pattern regulation? if so when?

The 1889 and 1897 Quartermaster specifications "Each side of hat to have an opening for ventilation consisting of small punched holes of size,and arranged in design,as on standard sample hat;the center of design to be about three and one-quarter inches from the brim." Adopted Feb.8,1889

I note some differences in the stars regarding number of holes,but have never really noticed any other pattern but the star one.The previous specification dates from Dec.14,1883.

[liten]

 hopalong to your nearest hat maker  they will show a snowflake vent

[pony express]

Before the "snowflake" vent, there was also one that had a small round brass screen for a vent. I have seen the screens for sale somewhere, but I can't remember where it was I saw them now.....

[Charles Isaac]

Yes I am. It is a 1882 Starred caribine from the New York State Militia. It belonged to a friend's Great Grandfather. He took it to Cuba and brought it home after he mustered out after the turn of the century. I think he went to the philippines as well with it but I cannot confirm that at present. It shoots well especially considering its bore condition is not pristine by any stretch of the imagination. I shot a clean match with it though.

That's great Hopalong, I like a gun with history and 1/2 the fun for me is seeing the antique iron come alive on the firing line!

What kind of handgun are you using? Thought about trying a break open Smith&Wesson? Much faster when it comes to a reload.

[G.W. Strong]

That's great Hopalong, I like a gun with history and 1/2 the fun for me is seeing the antique iron come alive on the firing line!

What kind of handgun are you using? Thought about trying a break open Smith&Wesson? Much faster when it comes to a reload.

Right now I am using my Ruger Vaquero in 45LC.


I agree about shooting historical iron. It is so much fun! I will not own a rifle I would not shoot. I have many old rifles and virtually all of them are military and virtually all of them are pre-1950. I particularly like Victorian military rifles and have quite a few interesting ones. Here is a list of a few of my my early (pre 1910) military rifles.

Schützengewehr M1858, Bavarian-1860
Enfield P1853 3-Band Rifled Musket, British-1860
Springfield Rifle Musket Model 1864, American-1863
Enfield Snider MK II*, British-1864
Springfield Trapdoor Model 1870, American-1870
Springfield Remington Rolling Block Model 1871, American-1872
Martini Henry Mk I, British-1874
Martini Henry Mk II, British-1877
Mauser Infanteriegewehr M1871, German-1877
Martini Henry Francotte Rifle, British (Nepal)-1878
Mauser Infanteriegewehr M1871/84,   German-1886
Springfield Trapdoor Model 1874, American-1887
Springfield Trapdoor Carbine Model 1883, American-1889
Infanteriegewehr 1888 Commission Rifle, German-1890
Infanteriegewehr 1888/05 Commission Rifle, German-1890
Mauser M1891 Cavalry Carbine, Argentinian-1899
Repetierstutzen M95/30, Austrian-1900
Krag Model 1898, American- 1902
Mauser Gewehr 1898, German-1905

[chain blue]

I called Quartermaster and they said no a lot of officers did not have strips on field uniforms. That said how wide a strip would say, a first lieutenant have.

[pony express]

Chain Blue- You're using the same information source I am, Quartemaster's website. They only list 1-1/2" stripes for officers, I believe all officer stripes are the same, regardless of rank. Maybe generals are different, I don't know.

Hopalong....I'm jealous of that list of rifles you have! There's quite a few of them that will work in GAF, pretty much everything but the muzzle loaders and the GEW98. A '71 or '71/84 Mauser Is on my list of "someday I'm gonna get one" list.
There's LOTS of uniform possibilities to go with them, since all the different states had different ones.

[Grapeshot]

Officers had a little more leway in uniforms than enlisted.  Trouser stripes for all but staff officers were one and a half inch in branch colors from 1872 to 1919 in the BLUE SERVICE Dress uniforms and the Full Dress Uniforms.  They were also employed in the canvass and Kahki Uniforms until the late 1898 kahki field uniform was fielded late in the Span Am war.

[G.W. Strong]

Hopalong....I'm jealous of that list of rifles you have! There's quite a few of them that will work in GAF, pretty much everything but the muzzle loaders and the GEW98. A '71 or '71/84 Mauser Is on my list of "someday I'm gonna get one" list.
There's LOTS of uniform possibilities to go with them, since all the different states had different ones.

If you ever want to trade for one let me know. I have only one 71 but I have multiple 71/84s. All are shooters.

[G.W. Strong]

OK, here is another question, in the IW and SAW period  (probably different answers depending on the period) what sword (if any) would be carried by an artillery sergeant? Would it be a regular campaign item or only for dress wear?

[Drydock]

A mounted (Light/field) artillery sgt. would be authorized to carry the M1840 Light artilery sabre.  By the IWs largly considered a ceremonial/dress item.  Retained in regulations until WW2, and still carried by some ceremonial units to this day.

http://www.arms2armor.com/Swords/1840lart.htm

[G.W. Strong]

So I don't need a sword then. That is good news.

[G.W. Strong]

Next question... What is the proper belt and buckle for an artillery sergeant through the IW and SAW periods? I'm sure it changes over time but I'm not sure when and what.

[Drydock]

For waist belts,iIn 1874 the oval US of the CW period changed to a rectangular US buckle for all ranks.  This was used until 1904 or so. The Eagle and wreath 1851 NCO buckle continued to be seen clear up to 1900, though not as a regular issue item.  Officers liked them a lot for field use with an enlisted belt, as the officer designated leather of the time tended to be fancy and fragile.  Note the Lt. Colonels belt to your left . . .

Amunition belts were tongue and loop until the issue of the Mills belt, which initialy came with an "H" US plate.  Later Mills belts came with a simple "C" closure.  Check under "Ammo and Waist belts" here :

www.trapdoors.com



                   

[G.W. Strong]

Good, I have an oval and a rectangle US buckle for my leather belts and H plates on my Mills belts. All have the US logo. Portraying an NCO do I need the eagle buckle?

[Drydock]

Nope, all enlisted used the rectangular US buckle after 1874.   Those that had the 1851 often wore them, but the regulations only specified the US buckle.

[Pitspitr]

And they're available. S&S is one source as is, I believe, Dixie Gun works.

[G.W. Strong]

I got by black campaign hat from Coon Creek yesterday. I was surprised that it had a round crown and a dead flat brim. That got me thinking. That was probably the way they were issued and the soldiers formed their hats themselves. Is this correct?

If so, what shape should a campaign hat have?

Also from a proactical standpoint. The interior of the sat is lined in "satin" with a clear plastic inner liner near the top of the crown. Obviously they hats did not roiginaly have a plastic crown liner in period. How about the satin? It woudl seem to me that the plastic woudl cause the head to be very hot and the satin might even restrict breathing and ventilation as well. Should the crown have any ventilation?

[Drydock]

As you say, thats how they were issued.  SHape it any way you want.  You might want to go thru our Historical pictures thread and see what was done.

The issue hats were unlined.  Plenty of hats were private purchased by troops, and they might very well have had lining.  The initial issue had a spinner type vent called a "Bracher" vent I believe, but this was dropped quickly. Most in the field had no ventilation that can be seen.  A black hat with no ventilation is prefectly appropriate for the mid 1870s to mid 1880s.

The Burgess M1876 posted on another thread has examples of the short lived "Bracher" vent.