uniform questions

[cpt dan blodgett]

Could spill coffee on the grey hat and maybe it would become drab or jus claim you are john wayne.  He wore a lot of grey hats (silver belly?)

[Drydock]

The campaign hat changed from black to brown drab in 1882/3.  Senior officers could still wear a black campaign hat if they so chose, but rarely did. 

[G.W. Strong]

How long was that next drab hat worn for?

[Drydock]

With minor variations, until 1942.  The big change was in 1911, when the "Montana Peak" crease was made mandatory.  Prior to that, there was no real "regulation" crease, though most commanders preferred the fore and aft fedora style crease.

[G.W. Strong]

Do are you saying the montana peak hat of WWI vintage and the fore and aft crease hat that charged up San Juan hill are the same hats with different creases? That is fascinating!

[St. George]

The M1889 Campaign Hat was worn with a fore-and-aft crease from it's date of issuance, until the advent of the Great War.

The 'snowflake' ventilation holes changed to 'eyelet'  in 1911, the popular style of the 'Montana Peak' was adopted service-wide, and that hat became known as the 'Service Hat/Campaign Hat' - issued to all soldiers and Marines until mid-WWII, when it was discontinued as an item of general issue.

That hat - with color variations - would be seen on Drill Instructors and Rifle Team shooters and still serves in that capacity today.

It saw little if no overseas service during the Great War and WWII - due in large part to the fact that it was virtually un-packable in dufflebags/barracks bags - the European-style 'Overseas Cap' was universal after the first American contingent of the AEF set foot in France in 1917 - but it was worn by those who were already stationed in the Far East.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[G.W. Strong]

Is the coon creek hat the correct color?  I ordered their black one because I figured black is black. It will tell me how their sizes run. If it fits and I like the look of its quality I will order the drab one.

[Drydock]

Its correct insofar as any light brown is correct.  The hats were sourced from many different contractors back then, and each had its own shade of brown "Drab".  Same with the "Sky blue" trousers.  The later Kahki uniforms also varied slightly from different contractors.

[G.W. Strong]

Can someone elaborate on the ventelation holes? I hear about the 'snowflake' ventilation holes being changed to 'eyelet' and I'm in the dark. Were there others? When were the forms in use?

[St. George]

M1889 Campaign Hats

WAR DEPARTMENT,
Quartermaster General's Office

Specifications for Fur Campaign Hats.

Mixture.—To be composed of fur in the following proportions and kinds, for twenty-four (24) dozen hats: Fifteen (15) pounds Y. C. Ex. Ex. coney; thirty (30) pounds Y. C. No. 1 coney; sixteen (16) pounds W. C. No. 1 coney; twelve (12) pounds W. C. mottled coney; five (5) pounds W. C. hare's bellies; ten pounds blown nutria; ten (10) pounds American rabbit.

Weight.—Hat bodies to be weighed, four and three-fourths (4 ¾ ounces heavy.

Shape.—Block to be five and three-fourths (5 ¾ inches deep to center of tip.

Brim.—To be two and three-fourths (2 ¾ inches wide in front and rear, and three (3) inches at sides; and to have three rows of stitching on edge.

Color.—To be drab, shade of standard sample.

Trimmings.—To be trimmed with eight-ligne union band, same quality and style as on hat, to be sewed on by hand. Sweat to be an imported lined leather, two and one-forth (2 ¼ inches wide, sewed to the reed by zigzag stitch. Each side of hat to have an opening for ventilation consisting of small punched holes of size, and arranged in design, as on standard sample hat; the center of design to be about three and one-quarter (3 ¼ inches from brim.
The hats to be doe-finished, as per sample.
To be packed three hats in each band-box.

Adopted February 8 1889, in lieu of specifications of December 14, 1883, which are hereby canceled.

S. B. HOLABIRD,
Quartermaster General, U. S. A.

As stated above - the 'snowflake' ventilation holes were in the original M1889 Campaign Hat.

They'd stay like that - with minor variations - until 1911, when the enamelled eyelet was installed, and the 'Montana Peak' became the official shape of the Campaign Hat.

They're punched-through holes in the shape of a snowflake - allowing the hat to breathe for the wearer.

Color-wise, the M1889 and M1911 Campaign Hats were closer to a 'Doeskin' color, when new - darkening over the period of issue to a very Dark Brown, after WWII.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[G.W. Strong]

I woudl love to see a picture of this snowflake hole. My mind makes it more elaborate than it probably was

[St. George]

It's pretty elaborate.

Looks just like a multi-pointed snowflake made of small punched holes.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[Charles Isaac]

Hopalong, are you shooting an original M1884 Carbine??

[Charles Isaac]

Could spill coffee on the grey hat and maybe it would become drab or jus claim you are john wayne.  He wore a lot of grey hats (silver belly?)

Funny you should mention that!
For what it's worth, General Leonard Wood's (of Rough Riders fame) slouch hat.

Interesting, isn't it?

[G.W. Strong]

Hopalong, are you shooting an original M1884 Carbine??

Yes I am. It is a 1882 Starred caribine from the New York State Militia. It belonged to a friend's Great Grandfather. He took it to Cuba and brought it home after he mustered out after the turn of the century. I think he went to the philippines as well with it but I cannot confirm that at present. It shoots well especially considering its bore condition is not pristine by any stretch of the imagination. I shot a clean match with it though.

[chain blue]

Does an officere got to have strips on their trousers.

[pony express]

It depends on the exact uniform and year, I think. As far as I know, all the uniforms had stripes untill they came out with the 1899 khaki.

[G.W. Strong]

can anyone provide me wiht a picture of the snowflake pattern vent?

[Drydock]

http://www.cowanauctions.com/peek-in-warehouse/item.aspx?ItemId=93937

[JimBob]

I woudl love to see a picture of this snowflake hole. My mind makes it more elaborate than it probably was

http://www.gatling-gun.com/M1902Model1902CampaignHatStarVent.htm