Why so many guns?

[Lead Zeppelin]

Hi - I was just wondering why SASS was created as a multi-gun only sport.  I know some of the other CAS sports have categories with fewer than 4 guns - but I think all of them are still some form of multi-gun in the main matches.  Why?

I'm not trying to be a newbie suggesting changes - I'm just trying to understand the origins and underlying philosophy of this game.  Was there ever a time when pistol-only/rifle-only/shotgun-only categories were part of SASS?

   

[Major 2]

Opinions may differ .....

SASS is or was in it infancy a off shoot of  IPSC International Practical Shooting Confederation....

SASS badge 1 AKA Judge Roy Bean and SASS #2 US Grant had the idea of IPSC for 19th Century guns.
It helped that US GRANT is Boyd A. Davis, CEO/President of EMF.

Made sense .... the more guns needed to shoot a SASS stage...the more can be sold 


Some SASS Posse' are beganing to offer NCOWS style two and 3 gun matches ...

NCOWS has Working Cowboy 1 pistol & 1 Rifle
offers Sodbuster ( unofficial national class as of now ) 1 pistol & 1 Shotgun
and a 1 pistol, 1 rifle, & 1 shotgun class as well.

[Lead Zeppelin]

Thank you Major - I guess it's the roots in IPSC that made me curious - doesn't IPSC separate the handgun/rifle/shotgun into separate disciplines?  Can't an IPSC competitor choose to compete in only 1 of the disciplines?  We can't do that in SASS - every stage usually has all guns in play.

I haven't been able to find an active NCOWS group in my area of Southern California.  Several good SASS groups!



 

[TwoWalks Baldridge]

Thank you Major - I guess it's the roots in IPSC that made me curious - doesn't IPSC separate the handgun/rifle/shotgun into separate disciplines?  Can't an IPSC competitor choose to compete in only 1 of the disciplines?  We can't do that in SASS - every stage usually has all guns in play.

I haven't been able to find an active NCOWS group in my area of Southern California.  Several good SASS groups!  

The closest NCOWS group too your location is the "Hat Creek Regulators" in the Bakersfield area.

If you smile real big and talk real friendly, some of the local SASS groups will let you shoot 1 gun - 2 gun or whatever number you choose.  They will in turn smile real big and talk real friendly while trying to persuade you to shoot 4 gun.

[Abilene]

I think SASS started out with just 3 guns (1 pistol) and they had reloads, then eventually went to 2 handguns.

[BlackCatBriggs]

I think reload stages would be quite fun, actually. Three classes, of course: Loading Gate, Muzzle-loading, and Top-Break.

Otherwise, 'twouldn't be fair. That being said, I think a Colt shooter with enough farmiliarity with his gun could reload much faster than a novice Schofield wielder. In some cases, depending on your though patterns, a Colt may even be quicker in your hands because the reloading motion is repetitive. So, maybe an open class reloading match as well. (Although I think the cap and ball people might find themselves out-of-place in that one.)

Still, the exhilaration of racing to reload your firearm is incomparable to any other anticipation. I think a match that revolved around that featuring a single pistol would be a great deal of fun.

[Lead Zeppelin]

You could always do a Clint Eastwood "Pale Rider" reload, and just swap the entire cylinder.

[TwoWalks Baldridge]

You could always do a Clint Eastwood "Pale Rider" reload, and just swap the entire cylinder.

Swap cylinder and put caps on cylinder would still take a lot more time than punching 5 or six shells in a colt 45. Clint did not cap in pale rider. 

[Cliff Fendley]

It's been a while since I've seen that movie but I think that gun had a cartridge conversion and he just swapped the whole cylinder rather than reloading the cartridges. Made for a neat scene.

[StrawHat]

It's been a while since I've seen that movie but I think that gun had a cartridge conversion and he just swapped the whole cylinder rather than reloading the cartridges. Made for a neat scene.

Unfortunately, many think that was a common practice.  I am still trying to find any documented cases of that reloading procedure.  It was much faster to use a second revolver.  As was done later in that same movie.

[Tornado]

Would SASS ever consider having some 2 gun classes?  I know in todays economy, having to buy fewer guns would attract new comers(like me) and might keep some veterans in the game(save on ammo).  I know NCOWS has a Working Cowboy(1 rifle and 1 pistol) and they are looking at others.

[Sacramento Johnson]

Would SASS ever consider having some 2 gun classes?  I know in todays economy, having to buy fewer guns would attract new comers(like me) and might keep some veterans in the game(save on ammo).  I know NCOWS has a Working Cowboy(1 rifle and 1 pistol) and they are looking at others.

Hi,
I'm a SASS member and posted a question on SASS wire a few weeks back looking to see if there were any SASS clubs that offered less than 4 gun classes, and if so, how was the turn out, and what reasons were given for shooting it.  To my pleasant surprise, there were a number in the midwest, Texas and even one in S. California.  I proposed a two gun class to a local club here in NV and it was totally shot down, especially by one old fool who wanted to keep everything just as is, for among other stupid reasons, lest other clubs in the area steal their membership for offering an NCOWS-like class.  What nonsense!  (And SASS already offers classes like NCOWS's, guns-wise).  Their response was let new people show up with what guns they have, offer them guns and ammo and if they decline, let them take the misses for what they don't have.  Same old-same old; not very inviting to newbies, and not very smart legally. And they never did address the other part of the equation; older established shooters,  who for lack of funds, health, etc, aren't up to 4 gun matches any more.

[Cliff Fendley]

Working cowboy seems to be the most popular NCOWS class.

[Lead Zeppelin]

Hi,
I'm a SASS member and posted a question on SASS wire a few weeks back looking to see if there were any SASS clubs that offered less than 4 gun classes, and if so, how was the turn out, and what reasons were given for shooting it.  To my pleasant surprise, there were a number in the midwest, Texas and even one in S. California.  I proposed a two gun class to a local club here in NV and it was totally shot down, especially by one old fool who wanted to keep everything just as is, for among other stupid reasons, lest other clubs in the area steal their membership for offering an NCOWS-like class.  What nonsense!  (And SASS already offers classes like NCOWS's, guns-wise).  Their response was let new people show up with what guns they have, offer them guns and ammo and if they decline, let them take the misses for what they don't have.  Same old-same old; not very inviting to newbies, and not very smart legally. And they never did address the other part of the equation; older established shooters,  who for lack of funds, health, etc, aren't up to 4 gun matches any more.

I hate to say it, but SASS might be a game for people with more disposable income than I have available.  I know the posse will loan me guns - but that just isn't how I like to roll.  I don't currently own *any* of the required guns.  If I don't think I will ever spend the money it takes to buy *all* the guns, then I'm probably not going to keep going.  If I could show-up in my cowboy duds and just have fun shooting one handgun, that would be enough for me.  To be honest, I would probably be happy just shooting a Heritage Rough Rider in .22! 
 

     

[Abilene]

When I first got interested in CAS, I had 2 suitable guns, a Vaquero and a Colt.  I asked one of the shooters if there was a separate category for handgun only and he said no, you're gonna need a rifle and shotgun also.  Well dang, not only did I need to spend more money, I just wasn't into the long guns.  Now I'm really glad that was the case because I like the rifle and shotgun as much as the pistols.  Nowadays I have much less disposable income, so if I was getting started I would have to do some swapping and selling to get what I need.  I'm not against adding categories for less guns, but I'm glad that I was "required" to use 4 guns.

[Jefro]

I think SASS started out with just 3 guns (1 pistol) and they had reloads, then eventually went to 2 handguns.

Yep SASS started with 3. then added another handgun, more guns more fun.

Hi,
especially by one old fool who wanted to keep everything just as is, for among other stupid reasons,
  Their response was let new people show up with what guns they have, offer them guns and ammo and if they decline, let them take the misses for what they don't have.  Same old-same old; not very inviting to newbies, and not very smart legally. And they never did address the other part of the equation; older established shooters,  who for lack of funds, health, etc, aren't up to 4 gun matches any more.

What's wrong with allowing you to shoot what you want sounds very inviting yo me. If you only want to shoot one or two guns then show up and shoot, but don't expect them to make a new category for everyones idea of what it should be. It is what it is, if someone else wants to shoot the same combination of guns you are shooting then y'all can shoot against each other, deduct the misses for the unshot targets and Ta Tda!! there's your score. It's that simple, any SASS club will let you shoot one, two, three guns, I don't think you should call them stupid or old fools for allowing you to shoot. You will find the cowboy action community more than willing to work with new and old alike, remember it's just a game, go shoot. Good Luck

I hate to say it, but SASS might be a game for people with more disposable income than I have available.  I know the posse will loan me guns - but that just isn't how I like to roll.  I don't currently own *any* of the required guns.  If I don't think I will ever spend the money it takes to buy *all* the guns, then I'm probably not going to keep going.  If I could show-up in my cowboy duds and just have fun shooting one handgun, that would be enough for me.  To be honest, I would probably be happy just shooting a Heritage Rough Rider in .22!     

You can show-up in your cowboy duds and just have fun shooting one handgun, have you been to a match yet
How do you know what you'll ever do or spend without ever having gone to a match and giving it a try. It may not be how you like to roll, but trying out the different firearms is the only way you'll ever know what you want. The first thing we tell new shooters is DO NOT spend a dime untill you have tried the different guns, it'll save you money in the long run. I know we're wierd that way, always trying to hand strangers our guns to shoot, but we like it, give it try you may like it too.
  As for the cost, yes it's a bit of investment to start, but once you have all your gear it's a lifetime of fun. Any hobby is gonna have an initial investment, but CAS cost way less than, golf, boats, horses...etc...etc.

IMHO if I'm gonna spend four hours on the range, I want to shoot more than one box of shells and as many guns as I can get my hands on. Hope to see y'all on the range, Good Luck

Jefro Relax-Enjoy

[Marshal Deadwood]

Heck, I don't know what I DID do for fun before I found Cowboy shootin' !  Hard to find a more fun loving, laid back bunch'a guys and gals than SASS shooters.

If you go slow, study and ponder what you like and do not like,,and spend wisely, you can do it. And as others have stated, it doesn't all have to be done overnight.

MD

[Cliff Fendley]

Why wouldn't they offer another category if you have at least two shooters wanting to shoot it? It's not like its a big deal, not like you have to set up other targets, they shoot in the mix with everyone else but don't shoot all the targets, at the end of the day they get scored differently. No big deal. If they give out a big trophy or something I can see a problem but if you just shooting for a certificate or bragging rights who cares.

[Jefro]

Why wouldn't they offer another category if you have at least two shooters wanting to shoot it? It's not like its a big deal, not like you have to set up other targets, they shoot in the mix with everyone else but don't shoot all the targets, at the end of the day they get scored differently. No big deal. If they give out a big trophy or something I can see a problem but if you just shooting for a certificate or bragging rights who cares.

It ain't no big deal, most clubs would be glad to. But if they don't make a category just for you ain't no big deal either, if you want to shoot CAS just show up and shoot, that's the point. I shoot FCGF alot, most of the time I'm the only one, so I just go ahead and shoot with the smokeless bunch. Even though that smokeless powder is a passing fad

Jefro Relax-Enjoy

[Major 2]

Cliff

you may have a point... then so does SASS , their discipline their rules.  2 pistols 1 rifle 1 shotgun.

Some local SASS posse' around are trying an version of Working Cowboy at SASS event's and I read it is well liked and in some cases not so much.
Different strokes for different folks  

Where loaning guns is a WAS trate, some might not care to be a borrower,
"Never a borrower or lender be" is instilled into many at a young & tender age ,  that is just a way of life .
I can understand that.

Back to two Gun... Judging from entries at the NCOWS National & SW Regional (just held) Working Cowboy was the most entered class.
With SodBuster being tried at the NCOWS local posse' level as possable new class, and Originals that would make 3- two gun classes.

The judging, for all three are based only on the targets, required for those particular firearms, ( the exception is Originals where one is  judged based on one's impression as well )
1 pistol shoots 5 targets rather that 10  and 1 rifle (or Shotgon) shoots only the alloted targets for the stage, easy and in fact helps.
It does speed the stage alone, when large or muliti posse's are present.

As said, 2 gun is starting to be seen at some local SASS posse' s.  I doubt they will make it a National Class however.
SASS discipline is the 4 guns at the National & Regional levels... a local monthly match may try different disciplines if they wish.