Black Powder Firearms in the new series "Hell on Wheels"

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Mako - and all y'all others;

Right!

I think you've nailed it.  As Double Walks B. mentioned, I'd love to have THEIR budget for MY camp!


I just talked on the electrical telegraph thingie to my friend Delmonico about this whole subject.  He is MUCH more the true historian than I.  (He calls himself a "mongrel historian" since he does it for the love of it, not having the sheepskin saying he's an historian or professional - but he knows his sh..t, er ... stuff.)  He wants to see this and see other parts of the show; for instance, clothing, tools, food and utensils, etc.  Really digging into the quote-unquote authenticity.  We both agreed that Hollyweird is much better entertaining us than they are at teaching history and getting details correct.

You are very correct at the "genre" references. 

I'd love to have a "day at the range" using the MANPIG, especially if THEY supplied the weapon, ammunition, & batteries at their expense!  (Whomever they  is!  )  I'd even tolerate the 80 pound weight ... for a while, 'tho I'll admit that Jesse Ventura (pre politics) would be MUCH better suited to that end!  (JV = 6'4" tall, 250 lb./ JCB or SHB = 5'10" tall, 204 at my best, more now.)

This topic gets more & more int'resting as it gains momentum!

[Delmonico]

Give me the budget of a prop master and then check out my camp. 

Most likely not, we have a discussion about that on a board for renactors/living historians, that is the problem with most camps, way to much money and way to much gear, the question is how did they get it all there?

My cook camp which can feed up to a 100 people ifI have a couple helpers can fit in the box of a pick-up which one freight wagon could carry and then the portable resteraunt like many that were common in early boom towns can be set up.  The average traveling person camping on the prairie would not have near as much gear as shows up in most camps. 

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Right on, but in truth ... most  of us who set up a camp are actually aspiring to do a "museum" type of display, showing all the neat things we have, rather than the "Reader's Digest Condensed Version" we'd actually use if we had to carry what our horse or wagon could handle, rather than what our horseless carriage (or truck) can haul around!



Having several hundred horsepower under the hood can be pretty helpful ... and it spoils us! 

When I used to go on a mission, I took the minimum amount I needed, so I didn't have to haul-a$$ up a hill with half of my issued gear! 

(Spoken like a true Tanker, right TascoJoe?     Living on our armored beasts as we did, we still looked like gypsy wagons with all the crap we carried thanks to more than 1.5 thousand hp!)

[Delmonico]

Well Jeff as we've talked one of my projects this winter is a new place to live in camp, I know more geat to haul, this house has been good to me:



And it is very PC.

I've set up the box thingy to record some of the shows, I want to see what they've done wrong beyond the firearms.  From the original post here I think the big one was missed by all.

[panhead pete]

Gentlemen,

I hope you did not mistake my observations for criticisms.  I figured if the guns are getting that much notice maybe the clothes and the trains will be next.  I thought the show was very well done, which is why I rated it historically much higher than the aforementioned Silverado. (A fun movie in its own right). 

I think you will agree that it is much closer to Deadwood than anything that has been on the tube lately.  Not to mention the dialogue and period references to slaves and others.  I think this will be winner.

Regards,

PhP     

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Pete, I like Silverado.  I CAN be entertained without being too picky.  I only criticize the GLARING things told by the "experts" - who may have gained 99% of their "expertise" from CAS matches!

(That was a joke!)

[Delmonico]

Pete, I like Silverado.  I CAN be entertained without being too picky.  I only criticize the GLARING things told by the "experts" - who may have gained 99% of their "expertise" from CAS matches!

(That was a joke!)

I'm not so sure.

[Steel Horse Bailey]

That's why I said it.

[panhead pete]

Yikes, you guys are getting testy..  I OWN Silverado.  It is like fun, not as realistic as Deadwood, but still a fine movie.  I even have the theme song on one of my CD's.  I was simply making a comparison. 

[TwoWalks Baldridge]

Most likely not, we have a discussion about that on a board for renactors/living historians, that is the problem with most camps, way to much money and way to much gear, the question is how did they get it all there?

Well my current camp is:
A saddle for my head, a blanket for the dew, a small fry pan and a coffee pot too.

With a bigger budget, I would get a mule to carry the saddle. 

[panhead pete]

As campaigners and cowboys, we don't carry much.

Cotton drill ground cloth, painted with a mixture of black oil paint & Boiled linseed oil
Confederate states/civilian blanket, (From Wambaugh & White Sutlery). As seen in Echoes of Glory.
1860-1885 Glasses wil 1860's case. Sears catalogue of 1885 Procured from Regimental Quartermaster.
Holsters for 51 Navy conversions reproduced from Packing Iron.
Home made Tobbaco pouch with deerskin lining, hemp drawstring Echoes of Glory, Internet samplings.
Mosby style hat by Tim Bender, One of the best hatters in the country.
Tin cup by Village tinsmith with home fashioned bale.
Tin drum canteen, cork with hemp cord.  Village tinsmith. Echoes of Glory.
Haversack, Not shown Used now for carrying empty brass. (A Confederate sketchbook).

That was how we camped at the 150th Manassas. 

not shown,
Brogans, saddle, Mule ear boots, Uberti 1860 Henry, Pleated shirt with hand worked button holes.  (Thoughts on men's shirts1750-1900). 

[Junkman]

You really cracked me up! I laughed so hard I got cramps. 

[Fingers McGee]

Interestingly enough the pneumatic gun used from Cullen's perspective in shooting the soldier in the confessional was a fair representation of a Griswold (and Gunnison).  If you look at the clip you will see them testing the prop gun shooting a "blood pellet".  The cylinder is weird,  it has been turned down exposing the chambers on the rear of the cylinder, there is also a bright rub mark on the cylinder where it looks like the frame wasn't relieved enough to clear it.  This is obliviously a heavily reworked gun and the frame has some strange side plate screws probably exposing the pneumatic inner workings.

Howdy all,  I'm a little late to this thread.  I was shooting Comin At Cha in Texas last weekend and am just now getting caught up on forums and such.  I believe the pneumatic gun is a worked over Collectors Armory replica Confederate pistol with brass finish. 



I wasn't at home and couldn't see the pilot.  Hopefully I'll get to see it tomorow when it is replayed. 

Fingers

[panhead pete]

Howdy Fingers,

I believe you will be entertained.  Enjoy Amigo.

PhP

PS Thanks again for those paper shot shells, They have been put to good use!

[Mako]

... I believe the pneumatic gun is a worked over Collectors Armory replica Confederate pistol with brass finish...
Fingers

Fingers,
I agree, I ran across those non-shooting "replicas" a couple of days ago while doing some further research on whether or not there has ever been an example of an iron frame G&G.  They make it in a grey "pewter" finish and the brass frame.  It has all of the features including the screws on the starboard side towards the front of the frame shown in the prop photo.

http://gunsofold.com/griswold_confederate.html

Until I saw that I never paid attention to any of the non-firing "replicas." I really had no interest in them since they are non-firing and they have some goofy features like the openings through the sides of the cylinder.  The irony of this whole discussion is that the non-firing replica is a more accurate representation of a Griswold & Gunnison than the pistols they have the actor carrying and the prop department holding up and calling "Griswolds."

Regards,
Mako

[Fingers McGee]

Howdy Fingers,

I believe you will be entertained.  Enjoy Amigo.

PhP

PS Thanks again for those paper shot shells, They have been put to good use!

Glad they found a good home Pete.

Fingers

[Fingers McGee]

The irony of this whole discussion is that the non-firing replica is a more accurate representation of a Griswold & Gunnison than the pistols they have the actor carrying and the prop department holding up and calling "Griswolds."

A Pietta brass framed 1860 is far from a Griswold, and the .36 cal Griswold wasn't a magnum pistol of it's day by any stretch of the imagination - although through editing, the preview infers that the Griswold was a magnum, when the Armorer was actually holding up a Walker; which was the magnum of the day.  To add to the rediculousness there was: calling a pre-revelutionary war flintlock blunderbuss an 1880's weapon; saying that there were 100,000 Griswolds made (there were around 3500 made) and infering that the plant was blown up by the Confederacy (the Union Army burned it down after the battle of Griswoldville).

The pepperbox and Lily's deringer both look like models that Hoppe's made back in the 70s-80s.  If so, both very nice well made guns that can be very accurate.

Can't wait to see the episode and see how many other gross inaccuracies are perpetrated by Hollyweird.

[Drayton Calhoun]

For all the criticism Sergio Leone has gotten for historical innaccuracies, think back to G,B and U and remember one thing, he used the correct weapons, just converted for cartridges, so give the guy credit for trying to make it look authentic!

[panhead pete]

Fingers, 

I think you will be surprised.  Yeah, If you are going to call a gun a Griswold, it should be one, but, the overall look, dialog and feel of the show is pretty darn good.  Me thinks you will like it.  The worst thing for me to read in a Western novel, is "he wore his guns low and tied down"!!!  There are no serious turn offs like that.   

Kind regards,

PhP

[joec]

For all the criticism Sergio Leone has gotten for historical innaccuracies, think back to G,B and U and remember one thing, he used the correct weapons, just converted for cartridges, so give the guy credit for trying to make it look authentic!

I saw only one major flaw in that movie in the scene where Toco was looking at guns. One of the guns in the case was a modern double action S&W revolver. I noticed it because at the time I had my grandfathers service revolver which was the same 357/38 gun.