Some thoughts on being Period Correct

[Delmonico]

The problem is though, the hand wrought nails are pretty much from an earlier time, more colonial, the era of the flintlock.  The mass produced cut nail started to take over very early in the 19th Century and the wire nail took over almost all uses except major framing work about the timer of the Civil war.   

[Mogorilla]

Have no idea of the prices, but here is a source of cut nails

http://www.wheeling-labelle.com/

[Cliff Fendley]

I don't know that the cut nails are that hard to find, I haven't bought any in a few years but they are called masonry nails and I still see concrete guys using them on job sites. I have quite a few around but I'm not sure if they are available in a large variety of sizes.

Del I'm curious to see the wire nails when you get them made.

[River City John]

I have a Quaker Box put together with brass square headed pins, or were square bodied nails and were trimmed flush with the outside of the box, that look good tarnished down. Modern made from Hobby Lobby but were an early production batch where they had bothered to pin solid wood tongues after steaming like the vintage ones. Last several years whenever they've gotten batches of these boxes in, I've noticed they've gone to just gluing them and using thin plywood. Still could pin them after the fact when putting a finish on them, I suppose.

We sorted through my father-in-law's shop after he passed and divided up what everyone wanted. Not only was he a carpenter/cabinetmaker working from before the 40's, but his father was also a carpenter.
I concentrated on the drawers and bins of old hinges, bails, pulls . . . and a satisfying amount of slot-headed screws, anodized square-headed bolts, cut square nails (all about size 7d though) and other accumulation of period appropriate hardware. That and about 30 wood-handled steel hand chisels and gouges in just about every size or length you could imagine. All kept razor sharp. Also the big Arkansas stone pivoted in an oil box so I can keep 'em dressed.

(My brother-in-law got all the fancy late 1800's cast iron, brass and wood planes, levels, etc. and my other brother-in-law got the large power units like planer, table saw, lathe . . . I just didn't have space to put them. Oh well, I was pleased with what I received, considering the scarcity of sources.)

Next time you build a box, Delmonico, try insetting your hinges flush to the surface using a wood chisel. You probably have the where-with-all to do this yourself I bet. None of this mounting them on top of the wood, now. That way mounted on the interior still allows the lid to lay flat and only the pinned spine of the hinge showing at the back.

RCJ

[Delmonico]

Note John that the top one's on the box are, wouldn't work for both, but they were out of a box of junk from a garage sale.  You did note to the right and below the hinge in the first picture the wood had a big knot hole that has been covered with a tin can lid.  I claim extra style points for that.

In the planning but a while off is a very special box, I need to find the right stuff to get it just right, I have a blacksmith that owes me a favor and I'm thinking about hand forged on the hardware.  The wood will most likely be oak and I found a place I can get what is called ruby shellac.  It will be nailed together with hand forged copper nails, which I have a source for.  This will be a very special box for a very special kit and a bit of mysterious glamor is needed for this.  I hope to have everything found and it built by the muster. 

   

I think the blue cups will be replaced by red, the most expensive color of enamelware in the time period.  I found a source for some really neat little bottles for the spice and I have something very special for the brown sugar.

[Professor Marvel]

Ah My Dear Del -
I have been reading that "in general" the larger ( ie 10 penney  & etc ) wire nail were prevalent in rough carpentry in this country after about 1880-1890 (depending on the source ) and dirt common from ~ 1900 forward, having overcome cut nails entirely based on the very low cost, in spite of numerous papers describing the very valid superior holding strength of cut nails.

However, there is a great deal of discussion over the wide-spread use starting around 1850 of small wire nails called Brads , imported from the new Wire Nail Works in France and used extensively in the construction of cheap boxes, light crates,  and such. So I do believe you are on the right track.

I have been working on coming up with actual sources & references with the verifiable dates, as opposed to mere babble, but without success as of yet . Hopefully I may come across either dated adverts or import/export data as I was able to find concerning glass manufacturing.

I have also seen similar round boxes occasionally called "Shaker Boxes", and fixed with cinched copper nails.

The Cinched point of a nail (ie "cinched" or bent over before driven flat) is a grand device to fix the nail in place permanently . it is the devils own work to try to pull one of those cinched nails out without truly boogering up the wood.  Because of this, Cinched Door Nails are called "Dead Door Nails" . I am here to tell you, that a door built of heavy 2" oak planks and cross beams, held together with 6 or 8 inch Cinched Door Nails is not coming apart easily.


I believe the tool of your desire is called a "Nail Header".  Whilst blacksmithing, one of my chores as an "apprentice" was forging square nails from stock and swaging the head in a "nail header plate" .Unfortunately since your wire nails are not tapered, that form of header tool will not work for you. Instead you may want something like a smooth jaw plier with a groove cut into the flat to grip the round wire. You may be able to head them cold, but it takes but a moment in a propane torch to heat those tiny things to red :-)

yhs
prof marvel

[Leo Tanner]

Flooring supply stores have masonary nails in several sizes for the installers.  You need a variety to get tack strip into different slabs.

[Cliff Fendley]

Just a note, all masonay nails are not the cut type nails so open them up and look before you buy. Some of them are heavy round nail with ridges in them. Dont know what you call that but I don't think those existed back then. When I was a kid I seem to remember all masonry nails being the cut type.

[Leo Tanner]

Just a note, all masonay nails are not the cut type nails so open them up and look before you buy. Some of them are heavy round nail with ridges in them. Dont know what you call that but I don't think those existed back then. When I was a kid I seem to remember all masonry nails being the cut type.

The ridged ones are meant to be used with a hammer drill and what you would most likely find at Home Depot.  The cut ones are still out there though and fairly cheap.  They usually are portioned into paper sacks by the pound.

[Tascosa Joe]

I bought the stuff to make the buttermilk paint over the weekend.  I am going to try and mix up a batch tomorrow.  I bought fat free milk I hope that works.  Being a semi farm kid from the 50's when we milked the cows by hand, skim milk is what is 2% in the grocery store.  We let the cream rise to the top and then dip it with a ladle.  We will see how good it works or how poor a mixer I am.

[JimBob]

I bought the stuff to make the buttermilk paint over the weekend.  I am going to try and mix up a batch tomorrow.  I bought fat free milk I hope that works.  Being a semi farm kid from the 50's when we milked the cows by hand, skim milk is what is 2% in the grocery store.  We let the cream rise to the top and then dip it with a ladle.  We will see how good it works or how poor a mixer I am.

Any report on your milk paint experiment sir?

To the sources mentioned for nails and hardware,here's a couple who have unplated screws,bolts,square nails, hardware items,and other misc. http://www.blacksmithbolt.com and http://www.donsfurnitureclinic.com

[Tascosa Joe]

Life happens and I have not been able to try to make up a batch of paint.  I am going to try to get to it next week.

[Delmonico]

I had to finish up some outdoor stuff so I haven't got to try it yet.  After doing the garage I'm using to store my cook gear in I want the world to know I am now retired from the shingling business.   I beat the forces of gravity although there were a couple scary moments.  55 years old is too old to be doing that stuff and I'm about 3 weeks from that.

I have found a very interesting picture with round nails also, I'll try to get them posted tomorrow since I am keeping both feet on the ground and puttin' with some chores around the house all day.

[Tascosa Joe]

Del:
Did you find the picture of the wire nails.  I have not gotten around to making the paint.  Had at least 2 TDY trips, visited kids and grandbabies at Christmas and the weather has not been particularly cooperative since about Christmas.
T-Joe

[Delmonico]

Del:
Did you find the picture of the wire nails.  I have not gotten around to making the paint.  Had at least 2 TDY trips, visited kids and grandbabies at Christmas and the weather has not been particularly cooperative since about Christmas.
T-Joe

Sorry, I got busy with other things also, have them, just forgot to post them:

Dated 1863, Aquia Creek, Virginia. Captain J.W. Forsyth, the Provost Marshall:



Areas of enlargements:



Red:



Blue:



Green:



Defiantly not cut nails, the round headed nails of the time were not always perfectly round.

[Books OToole]

The round headed 'fasteners' pictured are probably "tacks" rather that nails.  They are probably only 3/8 to 5/8 long and are for securing the leather strip.


Just my opinion.


Books

[Delmonico]

The round headed 'fasteners' pictured are probably "tacks" rather that nails.  They are probably only 3/8 to 5/8 long and are for securing the leather strip.


Just my opinion.


Books

Not leather, split willow and they are the nails that hold the boxes together also.  From what I'm coming up with the hardtack boxes mostly used wire nails because they were cheaper.

[G.W. Strong]

I agree with Delmonico. I have been studying and making hardtack boxes and ammunition crates from the period. Hardtack boxes seem to be made with wire nails. Ammunition crates on the other hands are made with cut nails and screws. Ordinance memoranda of 1878 specify each ammo crate be made with 22 7d cut-nails, 12 2" no. 13 screws and four clinch nails. The regulation specifies cut nails which suggests that clarification was necessary and they were not to use wire nails. Other Ordinance Memoranda of 1878 referencing crates for the transport of rifle slings simply require "nails" and do not specify which sort except at the corners where the memoranda call for "floor-nails". Slings packed in a crate require less strength and security than ammunition packed in a crate. Were more strength was required cut nails are specified.

[G.W. Strong]

Here is a photo of a surviving sling crate box of the sort referenced in the 1878 Ordinance Memoranda.

Notice all the round headed nails.

[Delmonico]

Till you use those cut nails you don't realize how well they hold.  Back just before Christmas I was building my new work bench.  The top is three 2 X12's I planed smooth.  On top I put 1/2 chip board to mak it level on top and smooth.  Well the dang #10 screws I tried to put it down with tended at times to strip out and not draw it down.  Made a trip to a local hardware store and got some 1 3/4 inch cut masonary nails and put it down with them, drew it right down and held.  I'd tried a 2 1/2' one I had on hand and it was too long and went all the way through, had a heck of a time getting it back out.