Cylinder cuts on Taylor's 44-40 Conversions

[PJ Hardtack]

I really like the notch cut in my Kirst .44/.45Colt conversion cylinder that makes indexing the cylinder easy at a  loading table.

I want to do the same on the 44-40 cylinders of my Taylor's conversions. Up to now, I've been using a marked stick to prove an empty chamber under the hammer, but there is something about putting my hand in front of a loaded cylinder I don't like.

I have the issue of 'Guns of the Old West' with the .38  Kirst-Strite Cody Colt Navy conversion article. The cylinder on that gun has such notches over every chamber. I just want one to prove the gun. I also think that the size of the notches looks a little excessive, albeit authentic.

I've miked the chamber mouths and they are all uniformly .429 -.430, so I'm going to select a chamber on each cylinder relative to the stamped serial #s on the rear of the cylinder.

My question is: What is a good dimension for the width of the notch? I'm thinking .270-.275". That ought to make it quite obvious that there is no round in the chamber and still offer support for the case rim when I load six rounds. It's moot how much value recessed chamber mouths really have, S&W and other makers getting away from that nicety.

[Raven]

PJ

I would make the notch half that size or less it will still be very noticable.......270-.275 is huge!

Raven

[PJ Hardtack]

Thanks, Raven!

The safety notch on my Kirst cylinder mikes at .252 - .253". I suppose that is a good bench mark. I can always have it milled larger should it prove necessary. I want the most myopic RO to be able to see the empty chamber clearly.

I wish the article on the Cody .38 made mention of the width of the cuts. They appear to be large, considering the diameter of a .38 casing.

[PJ Hardtack]

Well, it's done! And quite successfully at that. I had a friend mill a notch on each cylinder of my consecutively #'d Uberti-made Taylor's 44-40 Remington conversions. We selected a chamber in the same position on each cylinder, just for symmetry. We used the notch on my Kirst .44/.45 Colt cylinder as a model.

The cuts are .250" wide and 3/64ths deep. I can just see the edge of the original rim recess, perhaps 1/64th". He nicely blued the cuts and if I didn't point them out, you'd never notice.
Now it is very obvious if that chamber is loaded as the rim of a cartridge shows up quite well. No more using a stick to prove an empty chamber under the hammer!

This mod ought to be standard on guns of this type as otherwise, you cannot tell if a chamber is loaded. In fact, it might make sense to so alter each chamber as per the .38 Spl. "Cody" '51 conversion featured in GOTOW.

If you are having trouble visualizing what I'm describing, look for copies of "Frontier Pistols & Revolvers" and "Age of the Gunfighter" and you will see very clear pictures of historic Remington metallic cartridge conversions with exactly the notches I'm referring to.
I never twigged as to the purpose of those notches until I got mine done. Now I know ......

[Montana Slim]

...........
If you are having trouble visualizing what I'm describing, look for copies of "Frontier Pistols & Revolvers" and "Age of the Gunfighter" and you will see very clear pictures of historic Remington metallic cartridge conversions with exactly the notches I'm referring to.
I never twigged as to the purpose of those notches until I got mine done. Now I know ......

Just to add......Many original revolvers of this style used rimfire cartridges....the notch is there for the hammer to strike the rim & make it go "bang". Being able to see the copper (later brass) cartridge case was a secondary benefit, but only told them there was a case in the gun. It could have been a fired case, too. Looking at the front-end of the cylinder told for-sure if the piece was ready. Loading / unloading tables and a safety officer are modern incarnations. 

Slim

[PJ Hardtack]

Slim

Yep, your right about the notches on RF conversions. I've got a couple of pics of Remington CF conversions and they lack the notches. The secondary value of seeing if a chamber has a case in it was a bonus. That's what I was hoping to achieve.

Tell ya what - YOU look down the barrel of a loaded revolver at a CAS match! I wanna see what happens .... ;>)

[Montana Slim]

I'm able to spot a loaded chamber fairly easy without actiually looking down the bore, or even breaking the 170, at least with my revolvers and ammunition.....But, none of that would have been a concern to the original users of these arms...particularly when the need to know "for-sure" was imminent.

Slim

[PJ Hardtack]

Montana Slim

This is turning into a pissin' contest ..... I'm not sure you're even familiar with the make and type of guns I'm talking about.

If you don't feel the need to alter your guns as I did mine - then Don't! As they came, it made me and our safety Officer a little nervous when I used a rod to prove an empty chamber. And yes - it happened that in loadig I mis-indexed and had a round under the hammer.

We aren't 'gunfighters', we're 'sportsmen' trying very hard to keep the game safe and prevent the negative publicity when something that could have been avoided happens.

If I was packing those guns for real, I'd be opening the loading gate and checking, as would anyone about to go into battle.

[Montana Slim]

No "P" contest on my end....A local shooter has a pair of the same model revoler using ( he cut a small notch on ONE chamber on each gun - and leaves that one empty)... I also have extensive experience with R&D and Kirst Cylinders. One of these mfgrs worked briefly with an associate of mine back in the 90's .... I allowed them a copy of my engineering detail designs for various 6-shot conversion cylinders (free-gratis).The other contacted me about "proofing" their conversions. Been shooting C&B revolvers since I was 13.

I've merely added historical perspective, with a bit of tongue-in-cheek. I could share more details...but I'll drop it since apparently no interest. BTW, I'm the same M.S. chiming-in on the same thread on the "rem" forum....
Slim

[PJ Hardtack]

MS

I think I made it clear that I had ONE chamber on each cylinder cut. At a later date, I may have the same cut made on every chamber just because my guns won't look like all the others.

Cheers!