Taylors 1872

Lewie Girardeau · October 30, 2011, 03:11:51 AM

HIYA ALL

I think I have closed in on the revolvers I would like and wanted to ask are Taylors '72 .38's dependable or a tinker's nightmare?
Also are they really .38 spl or will I need heeled boolets?
My other question is what would be a correct double rig for them?
I'm looking at a pr. of 5 1/2"ers, would a shortened slim jim type ( I prefer) be the right "style" or Hollywood fancy with eye candy.

Lewie Girardeau

Slowhand Bob · October 30, 2011, 07:56:28 AM

If it is akin to the Uberti conversions offered by Cimmaron you should have no problems with them other than the occasional Friday evening qc issue. I have a pair of R/Ms in 44 and they are really nice guns but not exactly true conversions of the cap and ball line. The whole gun seems to be beefed up some and things like that .38spec standard barrel added on. Check down a ways and you will find lots of conversations posted on the conversions.

As to holsters, I always think the Slim Jims are the way to go with early style firearms. These can range from an early PACKING IRON duplicate to the highly modified speed rig version offered by Mernickle (which I disagree with it being referred to as a Slim Jim). The Mernickle rig is well modeled in the most recent Capt Baylor article in the SASS Journal.

Major 2 · October 30, 2011, 08:22:19 AM

Taylors are good folks... Sue & Tammy are all about customer service , any issue and they will make it right (buy with confendence)
May I assume you're looking at the Navy R&M in 38 Spl.... in 5 1/2 they balance very well ( they are true .357 Bore or yes 38 spl., just NOT +P ammo )

I have a custom a built Navy R&M ( was 7 1/2 " now a 5 1/2" ) I love it....
mine is sighted, at 75 feet so they will shoot a tad high at SASS distance, you can adjust your point of aim or add a taller sight.
I adjust POA ....

If you look at the Summer 2011 issue of Guns of the Old west , there is a COOL rig Buffallo Bill Cody had for his 38 field Conversion
simlar to the Navy R&M.....

Coffinmaker · October 30, 2011, 01:25:55 PM

The '72 is usually delivered from Uberti with ...... issues. Foremost is the barrel/arbor fit which usually has to be corrected. They may have to be correctly timed. You will want to replace the factory springs with aftermarket springs.
I recommend VTI Gunparts for the springs. You'll need to replace the Main spring (too Heavy by far) and the Trigger/Bolt spring, also too heavy.
Once the arbor fit is corrected and the timing is correct, the guns are very reliable and only require the usual maintenance.

Coffinmaker

Lewie Girardeau · October 31, 2011, 12:44:28 AM

Coffinmaker,

Thanks for the parts source!! I found their website and marked it for future use.
OK, we have narrowed down the holsters for these hoglegs, now I need to think about saddle iron... What type rifle would be most likely to be carried by if someone were wearing a pair of these '72's?
I'm leaning toward beinng an unemployed Union artillery soldier on the wander after the c.w.( yes, I'm still a gunbunny for uncle) Would a Spencer or iron frame Henery be to old, or should I just go with a short rifle like the Comanchero or other '73 version?
Yes, I know that the Spencer would be a PIA in a match with the mid-round reload but, I'm willing to bet that .50 would sure lay out a whitetail pretty fast.

Thanks, Lewie

Slowhand Bob · October 31, 2011, 10:16:45 AM

The '66 should be as close as you will get with the age of post Civil War conversions, which was later than most of us wanted to admit and this makes our wandering time frame in the early '70s. I'm sure there were far fewer Henry's around also but it would remain a viable choice. Stop to think about it and the Colt conversions seem to have been pretty close to the same production era as the '73 so there isn't much lag time between them. Depending on how much of a mind game you want to play with your choice and unless your Yankee persona has a hidden source of capitol, money becomes a realistic issue. Perhaps he wasusing a Henry from his CW years or even captured one from an Indian. By the time the conversions appeared he could have also saved (or stolen) the cash needed to get a used '66. I like to play fast and loose with the facts and pretend that prairie conversions were abundant before the war even ended! (Well it worked for Tom Selleck!)

Mako · October 31, 2011, 11:11:25 AM

Bob,
You may know this but the OP may not, the '72 isn't a conversion. I'm just pointing it out so he won't go away thinking it is a conversion like a lot of people do.

The '72 was a purpose built pistol designed by William Mason at Colt's. They had to wait for the Rollin White (former Colt's employee who Sam blew off because he had the "pride of authorship" from front stuffing percussion pistols clouding his judgment) patent owned by S&W to expire. As soon as it did they began releasing '72s and also selling conversions.

As far as "prairie conversions" go, you can't chamber a .44 Colt's percussion pistol for .44 Henry, it won't fit. People had to invent new cartridges such as the .44 Colt, .44 Remington and the .38s in both rimfire and central fire to be used in the percussion pistol conversions. The .44 Colt cartridge wasn't sold until 1871 so that puts the kybosh on "frontier conversions" preceding the Colt's introduction. That is unless you want us to believe a frontier gunsmith not only made the conversions, but cobbled up cartridge cases to be sold with his pistols.

I have never read anything about earlier conversions other than what Colt's was doing in the factory to the time they released the conversions in 1871 when the patent expired. Even the .44 American released in '69 wouldn't have been of any help, it was too small just like the .44 Rimfire. Even if someone snuck a revolver out of the factory (highly unlikely because of the patent liabilities and they were highly controlled) they couldn't get ammo for it. I understand you are just pretending, but once again we need to remember people will repeat as gospel what they read from an experienced poster.

The Fox Creek Kid was always a wealth of information on these subjects when it came to dates and the arcane calibers/cartridges.

Regards,
Mako

Mako · October 31, 2011, 04:11:42 PM

Quote from: Lewie Girardeau on October 31, 2011, 12:44:28 AM
Coffinmaker,

Thanks for the parts source!! I found their website and marked it for future use.
OK, we have narrowed down the holsters for these hoglegs, now I need to think about saddle iron... What type rifle would be most likely to be carried by if someone were wearing a pair of these '72's?
I'm leaning toward beinng an unemployed Union artillery soldier on the wander after the c.w.( yes, I'm still a gunbunny for uncle) Would a Spencer or iron frame Henery be to old, or should I just go with a short rifle like the Comanchero or other '73 version?
Yes, I know that the Spencer would be a PIA in a match with the mid-round reload but, I'm willing to bet that .50 would sure lay out a whitetail pretty fast.

Thanks, Lewie

Lewie,
Think hard before you buy a Spencer if you are planning on going to SASS matches. That is unless you are just shooting for fun and don't care about being competitive. It doesn't hold 10 in any caliber it is presently chambered in, with the .44 Russian version (shortest cartridge it was chambered in) you could jam 9 in but they always jam with 9 rounds. I considered one for an occasional match until I found the .44 Russian only held 9 and wasn't reliable with 9 in the tube. Every once in a while I see someone post they shot a Spencer at a match, some even report they won their class or even a match (must be small attendance matches), but that is a rarity.

Some clubs may even object to you shooting a .56-50 at their close in steel as well if you are using heavy bullets and a full load. Reproductions were also made in .44 Russian, .44WCF. .45 Schofield, .45 Colt and maybe other calibers. You shoot Spencers for style points in SASS, at NCOWS matches you may find it a bit easier maybe with some increased range targets, smaller targets and a greater emphasis on accuracy (time penalty), but those still usually require 10 rounds as well.

The Henry is a great rifle, but it gets HOT after the 7th or 8th round with BP loads. By the 10th you are ready to put it down (throw it down in the summer)... With smokeless you don't have the problem. You have to learn the "Henry Hop" as the magazine follower hits your hand the last few rounds. Since we can only load 10 rounds in a match some people have added a spacer to keep the follower lever out in front of your hand. If you are interested I can send pictures of that. The 1866 is a modified Henry and I primarily like it for the fore end, the loading gate can be nice if you have to load one on the clock. You can load through the top but it is trickier for a beginner.

I shoot '66s or a Henry and my persona is also a vet, but I've turned small time rancher in the early '70s. I shoot 1860s (C&B) or Richards second model Conversions if it is raining. I have a pair of '72s (used to have 2 pairs) and used to use them as the wet weather guns before the Type IIs became available. You match those with a '66 and a hammer double gun and you are right in line for what you are looking for.

The secret of the "Old West" was that percussion pistols, Spencers, '66s and Henrys were used throughout the last third of the century. Colt's SAA, '73 Winchesters and the later guns were expensive. Hardworking people and cowboys used what they had. Even some experienced gunfighters were reported to still prefer what they knew, sort of like the 100 year old 1911 today.

Regards,
Mako

Junkman · October 31, 2011, 06:48:25 PM

QuoteSince we can only load 10 rounds in a match some people have added a spacer to keep the follower lever out in front of your hand. If you are interested I can send pictures of that.

Mako,

Would you be so kind as to send me those pictures?

Slowhand Bob · November 01, 2011, 09:32:02 AM

I am not very well read as to the real history of the ammunitions or the models for which they were created but rather pick up on what facts I can remember that gets posted on these popular sites, and memory is getting to be at a premium now days. In my head the game has to be played within what is practical for me and this frequently requires compromising fact for fiction. In my play world the 45 Special becomes the stand-in for the short fat cartridges that preceded the Colt .45 and various Pietta and Uberti clones, sometimes equipped with Kirst converters, stand in for the real guns that won the west? If the question becomes very technical my contributions will be very small but if it is about fun or opinion, I can jump right in and tell one what works for me and I do take lots of short-cuts. One last thought I always like to throw in, hoping the right company rep will see it and buy in, I like the Richards version best of all and hope that Pietta or Uberti will make a decent quality version of those for us. This was the only one that put the rear sight in the right place.

Lewie Girardeau · November 01, 2011, 11:04:56 AM

HIYA AGAIN,

"The Henry is a great rifle, but it gets HOT after the 7th or 8th round with BP loads."

And I sure do hope to be sniffing BP clouds!!

I had read about the heat problem with them and thought I would simply use some "distressed gauntlets" if I went that route. I really like the iron frame version and had thought about trying to find one in .357 for close work on deer. ( if they chamber it) Thanks for the help and insight on the Taylors ( they wife is buying them for me as REdeployment Gifts!!) as I'm on the way home "SOON" !!
I would like to see those pictures also MAKO, and thanks a bunch for the info and advice.

LEWIE

Abilene · November 01, 2011, 12:43:05 PM

Lewie,
The Uberti 1860 Henry is only chambered in .45LC and 44-40 (at one time they made a small number in .44 Spcl). No .357, sorry.

Using a glove on your left hand is common, although it kinda eliminates the possibility of shooting Gunfighter style

Junkman · November 01, 2011, 12:55:30 PM

Navy Arms Co. also imported and sold some Henry Rifles in the original rimfire .44 Henry Flat. The rifles had the original two pronged firing pin. They also imported a limited amount of new ammo for them. I do not remember the year or the number of rifles they sold, but they are really collectible.

Mako · November 01, 2011, 04:06:37 PM

Quote from: Lewie Girardeau on November 01, 2011, 11:04:56 AM
HIYA AGAIN,

"The Henry is a great rifle, but it gets HOT after the 7th or 8th round with BP loads."

And I sure do hope to be sniffing BP clouds!!

I had read about the heat problem with them and thought I would simply use some "distressed gauntlets" if I went that route. I really like the iron frame version and had thought about trying to find one in .357 for close work on deer. ( if they chamber it) Thanks for the help and insight on the Taylors ( they wife is buying them for me as REdeployment Gifts!!) as I'm on the way home "SOON" !!
I would like to see those pictures also MAKO, and thanks a bunch for the info and advice.

LEWIE

Lewie,
If your being deployed, be safe my friend. In fact I am in Sunnyvale taking care of some business for a friend who was supposed to rotate back this month (I say helping my friend because when I say helping his wife out while he's gone sounds a bit lurid). Thanks to the infinite wisdom of the powers that be he is being extended into at least February.

I will look later for some pictures I think I posted on another forum, I don't have my hard drive with all of my pictures with me. My spacer is a Ø1/2" black nylon rod with a dowel pin in the side as a stop. I have seen some made from Ø1/2" wooden dowels with pins in them. The dowel sits behind the normal follower and takes up the space after you load 10 rounds in the magazine. This gives you a bit more than a hand width. I can't remember the exact length off of the top of my head, It's less than 5" with .44WCF since the AOL for those is just under 1.6" and the .45 Colt is the same.

I'll send them to you as well Junkman.

Regards,
Mako

Abilene · November 01, 2011, 05:03:40 PM

this page has a picture of the spacer Driftwood Johnson made from a wood dowel.

http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,15500.0.html

Major 2 · November 01, 2011, 06:17:43 PM

Lewie Girardeau

I've have made more than few of these spacers sticks ( even did one in Faux Ivory & Brass for the 100th Henry Shooters Roster , of which I moderate )

Should you deside on the Henry...it would be my honor & pleasure to make you one....

The VERY least I can do , to say WELCOME HOME, Brother and thank you for your service.....

Major ....in his Uncle's Boating Service circa 1969-1972

Lewie Girardeau · November 01, 2011, 11:31:26 PM

Mako,

"If your being deployed, be safe my friend."

Nope I'm being Re deployed, that is the new army term for going back stateside.
Finding out the bad news about the Henery sorta makes me want to keep looking for a pair of revolvers I want, dangit!! I drooled over them 72' s a long time!!

Lewie

Slowhand Bob · November 02, 2011, 07:54:26 AM

Its a game and all for fun. When the truth gets in the way of the fun, go with the fun! Fun is what we do on the range while history is what we read in bed at night, that way makes both very enjoyable.

FriscoCounty · November 02, 2011, 10:03:46 AM

The open top with navy grips is my favorite pistol. It just sorta seems to aim itself.

My current project is converting a pair of Pietta 1851s to use .38 colt. I have the Kirst Konverters for it. Just waiting on the frames to come back from Tru- Ivory to mill out the ejection port. They'll look right for your time period, but .38 Colt was intoduced in 1875, that is after the.44 Colt. The .44 Colt came out in 1871 for the RM conversions.

Your best bet is to go with the 1866 with 1871 RM conversions or the 1972s in .38Spcl or .44spcl.

Mako · November 02, 2011, 02:15:50 PM

Quote from: Lewie Girardeau on November 01, 2011, 11:31:26 PM

Mako,

"If your being deployed, be safe my friend."

Nope I'm being Re deployed, that is the new army term for going back stateside.
Finding out the bad news about the Henery sorta makes me want to keep looking for a pair of revolvers I want, dangit!! I drooled over them 72' s a long time!!

Lewie

Lewie,
"Redeployment" huh? Leave it to the Army to come up with the best inverted mil-speak... We just call it rotating back home. I guess they are afraid of the term "rotation" because it implies you will be going back. Come to think of it, that's what it does mean.

Well I'm glad you're coming home. I think the Army currently has the short end of the stick. Check point duty, road patrols and 'portant stuff like "Nation Building," are just like hanging big "shoot me" signs on your back or acting like an IED detector all day long. At least with combat operations in the field it's a bit more on your terms.

I have a friend down range, and he was supposed to rotate back next month, but Gurganus is coming to town and he wants people he knows as part of the transition team. So my buddy won't be rotating home with his MEF. It will be February at the earliest and we are betting longer knowing the parties involved. Wanna change places?

~Mako