Hmm, am I going to get in trouble with the thread police?

[Delmonico]

For those who easily get their panties in a wad on either side of this issue, close the thread, this is in part tongue in cheek and in part another little research project more for fun. Besdes that, most if not all of you thought I was talking about clothing.  Nuts and bolts have threads also.

Recently I found a local hardware store that carries slot-head machine screws and square nuts in both zinc plated steel and brass, the zinc plating being easy to remove if desired.

Different countries have used different standards, a lot of us old pharts have encountered the British Whitworth in the past when working on English bikes, cars and in my case, tractors.  We also have encountered the metric as well as what most call American, also known as American Society of Mechanical Engineers (ASME) threads.  Well I knew this standard dated to the early automotive and aircraft era so I did a little research. 

http://www.sizes.com/tools/thread_history.htm

So I guess if someone wants to pick nits, my projects this winter using these screws won't be 100% PC, few things will ever be if you get too detailed, but no big deal, I doubt few folks will know and fewer will have a screw gauge with them. 

[Professor Marvel]

Ah My Dear Del -

Wonderful! thanks for starting this, this is a grand beginning, as the Nuts and Bolts of the matters are so seldom touched upon.

So I guess if someone wants to pick nits,

Or pick NUTS perhaps? I often find myself down at my local Hardware Establishment picking through the bins looking for something, well, nutlike. Does that make me Squirrely ? Further,  I regularly hear the common lament in that establishment "I don't know, does this nut make my bolt look too big?"

my projects this winter using these screws won't be 100% PC, few things will ever be if you get too detailed,

Indeed, if one really insists on pucking nuts picking  nits one could take umbredge with every Italian gun made since they are all now Metrically screwed!

but no big deal, I doubt few folks will know and fewer will have a screw gauge with them. 

Heavenly Carbuncles, If I should see an individual (no matter what their rank) approaching my projects with a screwdriver and thread gauge I would have to assume that they were a Gremlin in disguise out to sabotage my goodies, (as the Gremlins were wont to do to WWII aircraft)

and be forced to act accordingly.. 

to quote

[Cash Creek]

I'm going to get my thread gage out.. LOL..the way I do it if I can get the nut started on the bolt..force it..you can make it fit...LOL

BTY I like the history of screw threads story..CC

[Professor Marvel]

It is most intriguing to this writer, that the Brits recognized very early on that radiussed thread peaks and grooves were a Beneficial and Desireable feature; and that it took actual failure of the U.S. flat peaked and grooved bolts to demonstrate the weaknesses thereof.

I suppose, tho, that before the advent of laboratories equipped and funded to test building materials to destruction, one only gained a reputation as a successful engineer and builder owing to the fact that none of his designs and structures fell down!

I recall with nostalgia the grand excitement at Purdue - It was not until the 1890s, that Purdue University built their Steam Engine laboratories. And even those suffered from my afforementioned ... "issue" :

"In its infancy Mechanical Engineering shared space in University Hall, the Mechanics Building, and the Engine and Gas House, power plant number one. Heavilon Hall, dedicated on January 19, 1894, was the first Mechanical Engineering Building. Four days after the dedication there was an explosion in the boiler room and the building, except for the wood shop and foundry in the west wing, burned to the ground. "


oops.

yhs
prof marvel

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Here is a description of a book about THE SCREW and its history, which is directly linked to the developement of machine tools and largely inspired by the needs of gunmakers.  One Good Turn, by Withold Rybczynki;

http://books.google.com/books/about/One_Good_Turn.html?id=iNxSAAAAMAAJ

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Let me git this straight.

To get this thread, one must be nuts and continuously screwing around?




I'm in !!!



While I have heard of thread or stitch counters, I haven't heard of screw-thread counters.


That would be counter-productive!  (or perhaps Un-productive)

[Delmonico]

Let me git this straight.

To get this thread, one must be nuts and continuously screwing around?




I'm in !!!



While I have heard of thread or stitch counters, I haven't heard of screw-thread counters.


That would be counter-productive!  (or perhaps Un-productive)

Just remember unless it's a left hand thread (not as common today as in the past) it's:

Lefty loosey, righty tighty.

[JimBob]

What I'd like to know who was the screwy nut who decided there should be a 9/16th and  11/16th bolt.9/16th bolt had a 5/8th head and and an 11/16th nut.11/16th,remember those old wrench sets that had a 27/32nd wrench and hardly anything made post stone age used them.The only thing I ever found them on was the bumber bolts on a 36 Dodge.Then there's those hit and miss engines,square headed bolts and nuts,laborious time wasting hours using a wrench to get them in and out unless you had an 8 point socket set.One of my prize discoveries one time was finding an old hardware store that still had them,unplated steel ones.And even more exciting was they had 4x6 inch sheets of isinglass.

Then there's some of the screws on U.S. muskets and rifles,of an unknown pitch and size for which no one has replacements or taps and dies.Between the SAE machine screw sizes and metric.Screwy ain't it.

[Delmonico]

Jim Bob, that's why after WWII they did so much better at getting things standardized.  What's also nice is that in recent years the metric stuff has been much better standardized.  Used to be a bodyman and when folks would try to tell me how much better the metric system was I'd ask them "from which country?" 

[Steel Horse Bailey]

I have a complete set (Craftsman) of 8 pt. sockets, if you're still looking, JimBob.

[PJ Hardtack]

Geez, and I thought I lived in a nut bar society .....

where we drive in KPH, measure linear distance metrically, our height in feet and inches, our weight in English pounds and ounces, measure body temp and weather in degrees celsius and still think of altitude in terms of feet rather than metres.

No wonder the world is 'screwy' with more loose 'nuts' wound up too tightly for their own or my good .... ;>)

I gotta go out and cut some non-metric windfalls out of my wood lot measured in acres rather than hectares ......

I think I'm getting a head ache in avoir dupois ......

[Delmonico]

But PJ you can have fun with the different systems.  Get that kid that thinks he knows everything and ask him which weighs more, a pound of feathers or a pound of gold.  When he says he's smarter than that they way the same, then explain avoir dupois vs troy systems.  Have a referance handy cause they won't believe you till you show them.

[JimBob]

Jim Bob, that's why after WWII they did so much better at getting things standardized.  What's also nice is that in recent years the metric stuff has been much better standardized.  Used to be a bodyman and when folks would try to tell me how much better the metric system was I'd ask them "from which country?" 

LOL What's really aggravating some equipment companys ,John Deere for one,had some component parts using metric fittings and hardware.You'd go out to repair something in the field and find you didn't have a wrench that fit.10mm was especially aggravating on electrical components,3/8th was too small,7/16th too big and you couldn't get a crescent in and turn it or as a last resort vise grips either.I finally had a metric dedicated tool box before I retired.

Steel Horse,I got a set too.LOL Working on old cars,vintage engines,and old shop equipment it didn't take long to figure out that was something worth owning for the toolbox.I just wish somebody had made an impact gun set.

[Montana Slim]

This "thread" is good for a laugh.....the fine details on threads have changed quite a bit through the years, but we still manage to get by working with them in the firearms industry.

I have a small collection of engineering handbooks spanning the late 19th C through the 1940s. These books have proven very useful in my trade and are still relevant regarding thread standards.

Will be taking a journey into "German" metric threads one of these days...hopefully, I'll survive.

Slim
former ASME member

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Today Del said;
"Have a referance handy cause they won't believe you till you show them."

Here is the dictionary of measures

http://www.unc.edu/~rowlett/units/

Del;  There is even a scale of hat sizes!  Scroll about half way down the home page.

[Cash Creek]

I wasted all those years going to school.All I had to go was join NCOWS sooner..I can get all the Math and higher education right here and have a lot more fun doing it..CC