Reloading question

[PJ Hardtack]

After beaking off about Dillon presses, I went on line and found several "how to", introductory level videos on the various Dillon machines.
I focused on the 'Square Deal', as it is targeted on pistol calibres, coming with a set of dies for straight wall cases already adjusted. Calibre conversion kits are available for them. This is the one I would buy for myself, dedicated to couple of calibres.

After watching the videos, I'm of the opinion that if someone isn't smart enough to handle the simple mechanics of the 'Square Deal', he probably ought not to be reloading on his own with ANYTHING, single stage presses included. I've been present when a Ruger Super Blackhawk went 'Super Nova' due to a loading error. The guy admitted he didn't 'block check', loading on a single stage press.

The 'Square deal' auto-indexes on the down stroke, seating a primer after depriming and resizing. Power will NOT be dispense unless there is a case in position to actuate the dispenser. If you run low on primers, you get a loud tone from the priming unit. A range of accessories is available. This is typical of their higher end machines as well.

Until one becomes totally familiar with the full progressive operation, I'd recommend sizing and priming a run of cases, then running them through the expanding, powder, seating and crimping operations.

It's easy to get out of synch with a progressive, the most serious condition being the seating of a bullet sans powder. If you start with primed cases under the expander/dispenser die, you are much less likely to make this mistake.

Nothing is fool proof in the hands of a fool, but the "Square Deal" takes away a lot of the potential for errors.

[Curley Cole]

http://leeprecision.com/xcart/Closeouts/

Here is a good place to check every couple of days. Lee has closeouts and factory seconds at a pretty good price.

can get some pretty good deals.

good shootin
curley

[Cliff Fendley]

What makes them factory second, scratched or what? I would really be leery of a factory second on an already lower grade tool that should be made to a certain degree of precision.

I mean no offense and like I said before the Lee are good enough machines for loading cowboy action type ammo but they are already factory second or thirds compared to some other brands.

This is one of the areas where you still get what you pay for.

[Curley Cole]

Mr. Fendley

You say you "don't mean no offense" but right off the top what you are saying is very offensive to me. I don't see why folks have to get on their high horse and say this is bad just because. I have been using Lee equipment for 40 years and not a single piece has broken or failed.

as for "factory seconds" and "reconditioned" The stuff still carries a full coverage as a new item. (of course I have never had to send anything back.) And what happened, in your previous post you said you had no complaints with Lee, and now you are coming out swinging stating that they are already second or third rate products. Well, I object.

I am just trying to help some one save a couple of bucks and get in to the reloading.

AND for what it is worth, I just bought one of the "factory second" Lee powder measure and saved 50% off the retail, and the box was torn on one end. I don't see where that is going to affect my reloading one bit.

So, yes I do take offense at what you said. Lee products have served this house well since early 1970's.

respectfully
curley

[Cliff Fendley]

Read again, I said I had no complaints with Lee "dies". The rest works....but....there is a huge difference. HUGE!

Sorry to have offended you, just telling it like it is so someone can shop and decide what price range and quality they want.

[Pancho Peacemaker]

Texas John,

One other option for you is a "reloading service".  If you need some time to get your reloading set up purchased, you can send your brass in to various places and have it reloaded.

This is much less expensive than buying new ammo.  It is not as cheap as reloading your own, but it might be a option for you till you get your gear.

In the past, I have used Ten-X Ammo's reloading service.  They produced quality, reliable reloads and usual turn around was about 2 weeks.  There are other shops who offer this service as well.

http://www.tenxammo.com/tenx_ammo_B.html

Pancho.

[Curley Cole]

I have loaded thousands of rounds on this setup. And do you realize how many of those rounds were paid for by what I didn't spend on a "more expensive setup"  and I have had only one squib in 40 years. (and there are two types of folks experiencing some form of squb.Those that have had one and those that will have one.)

I shot with a World champion shooter and his family on my posse, and they had a total of 6 squibs in that single day.

I don't see any thing wrong with the big blue...dillion. I don't berate it and I don't tell folks not to buy one. Your money to do with as you wish. And I don't see why them that have those big blues give us the same in kind.

Just because it is inexpensive does not mean it is cheap.

that is it

curley

[Cliff Fendley]

Curley Cole, once again I'm very sorry if I offended you, I was just pointing out to the original poster that there is a big difference in quality and he can decide from there what his budget allows and how he wants to proceed.

A good friend of mine just got into reloading this past year and bought a Lee kit. He has already bought a different scale and an RCBS hand primer after using mine and seeing the difference.

I'm not blowing smoke just stating first hand experience.

For the type of accuracy cowboy action ammo requires any of it will work. It just kinda depends on how fast you want to get there and how smooth of ride your looking for.

[Dusty Drifter]

I thought I'd let ya'll know I've decided to go with the Lee Classic turret. I did consider RCBS, Dillon and other presses but for the cost and my needs at this time I feel that Lee is the best way for me to go. After alot of comparison, Natchez Shooters Supply tured out to the be the cheapest source. I received my equipment a couple of weeks ago and spent some time getting set up, studying reloading manuals and looking for local sources for components. Got everything together and was able to load some test rounds yesterday and took them out in the back pasture and tried them out. They all went boom, the gun didn't blow up and I hit what I was aiming at  so this afternoon I loaded up my first box of 50. I'll try to get out to the range next weekend and really see how my guns like them.

The one item I'm not to impressed with is the Lee Safety Scale. I did some research on it before I bought it so I wasn't expectiing too much but for $20 I figured it was OK to start out with. I figure having 2 scales is a good idea anyway so I'm looking around for another scale now. I'd like to hear opinions on scales.

Again, thanks to all ya'll that responded to my questions.
Texas John

[Jefro]

The one item I'm not to impressed with is the Lee Safety Scale. I did some research on it before I bought it so I wasn't expectiing too much but for $20 I figured it was OK to start out with. I figure having 2 scales is a good idea anyway so I'm looking around for another scale now. I'd like to hear opinions on scales.

Again, thanks to all ya'll that responded to my questions.
Texas John

Howdy John, glad to hear, the Lee Classic turret is great press, same one I started with. I used a Dillon beam scale for a few years before I decided to buy an electronic. Should have done it a looooong time ago. I got the Hornady 1500 GS, works great, really fast. I didn't care for the pan so I used the one from my beam scale. Just remember when using any scale to not have any air flow near buy. Good Luck
Hornady 1500 GS
Better Pan

Jefro Relax-Enjoy

[Johnny McCrae]

Howdy John,

Congratulations on your Reloading progress. Sounds like you are well on your way.

I've been using the RCBS Range Master 750 Electronic Scale since November of 2007. Very easy to use and calibrate. Midway USA has them for $109.99

https://shop.rcbs.com/WebConnect/MainServlet?storeId=webconnect&catalogId=webconnect&langId=en_US&action=ProductDisplay&screenlabel=index&productId=2999&route=C08J028

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/814722/rcbs-rangemaster-750-electronic-powder-scale-750-grain-capacity-110-volt

The RCBS scale is the only one I'm familiar with. There are several good scales out there and I'm sure other Pard's will come up with some other good recommendations.

[Jefro]

UniqueTek carries a line of products that have very good reviews. Here's a few of their electronic scales. The compact has simular features of the Hornady, which is more than enough for what I do. Good Luck
Compact Electronic Powder Scale
Enhanced Electronic Powder Scale
High-Precision Electronic Powder Scale


Jefro Relax-Enjoy

[cpt dan blodgett]

That $39 midway scale any good?
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/713372/frankford-arsenal-micro-reloading-electronic-powder-scale-750-grain-capacity

[bowiemaker]

I bought a Lee single stage kit last year for around $100 (not including dies). I bought Lee carbide dies. I have loaded several hundred .45 rounds and it works fine. Not the fastest rig in the west but once you get your methods down you can easily do a couple hundred in an evening.

The Lee hand primer just flat out sucks. It doesn't have half the leverage it should have. I bought a RCBS hand primer and it is light years better.

I didn't like or trust the cheap scales that came with the kit and later bought a digital scale.

The only other gripe I have is that the powder dispenser seems to be inconsistant. I am using Trail Boss which I have heard could be part of the problem. But I have had enough inconsistancy that I weigh each charge just to be sure.

Overall the Lee press is a good starter press. Knowing what I know now, I would have bought just the press and the other parts separately. I have used a RCBS single stage Rock Chucker and I must say that it looks and feels like a better built press than the Lee, but the Lee works fine.

[rickk]

Cliff,

There is nothing bad that can be said against the LEE turret press as far as quality.

It works great, loads quality rounds, and will never wear out in a lifetime.

It won't load as fast as a Dillon RL550, but the quality is there.

I have a LEE turret press (and a LEE cast classic as well) and two Dillons, and they all get used regularly.

Now, don't get me started on the LEE Pro-1000. I had two of those, and I have zero of them now.

[Abilene]

I have used the Lee Turrett for about 13 years.  Upgraded it from 3-hole to 4-hole.  I love the Turret because I load a variety of calibers and can change it over in seconds.  Also use the RCBS hand primer and like it.  I don't use the powder measure too often, too inconsistent for me and takes too much time to adjust from one setting to another for my tastes, since I'm mostly loading fairly small batches.  Mostly I use dippers, both for BP and smokeless.  I use the PACT BBKII electronic scale:  http://pact.com  This is the same one as the RCBS mentioned by Johnny McCrae but from the original manufacturer for less money.  Dillon also sells this one with their name on it.  I see from some of the other links posted above that there are some really inexpensive ones out there now.

[rickk]

Abillene, I would upgrade to the 4 hole too, but I have more 3 hole turrets than I can count filled with dies (25-30 maybe?).

I don't use the LEE powder measure either. I use RCBS and Lyman and Dillon measures, but not LEE.  I have taken the approach that if it is LEE and made of metal, it is good. If it is LEE and it is plastic, it is bad.

YMMV, or course ;-)


Rick

[Abilene]

Abillene, I would upgrade to the 4 hole too, but I have more 3 hole turrets than I can count filled with dies (25-30 maybe?).

I don't use the LEE powder measure either. I use RCBS and Lyman and Dillon measures, but not LEE.  I have taken the approach that if it is LEE and made of metal, it is good. If it is LEE and it is plastic, it is bad.

YMMV, or course ;-)


Rick

But I love my plastic dipper set and that little red funnel  

Before I converted to 4-hole, I considered another option.  Since I always size/decap a batch of brass first and then reprime by hand before going back to the press, I considered taking all the sizing/depriming dies off of their turrets and putting them on seperate turrets.  That would leave an extra hole for the Factory Crimp Die in each 3-holer.  But then the 4-hole turrets went on sale and I went ahead and changed over.

[Johnny McCrae]

Before upgrading my Lee Classic Turret Press with the Lee Pro Auto Disc Powder Measure I used
the press in sort of a semi-progressive mode as follows:
1) I install a turret with (2) sizing-decapping dies and (2) expander (belling) dies. I insert a case,  
   size-decap then index the turret. I then bell (flare) the case and index the turret. I remove        
   the case, insert a fresh case and start the process again.
2) I prime off press using an RCBS Hand Priming Tool.
3) I charge the cases off press using a Lee Perfect Powder Measure checking every tenth                      
   case for the correct charge. I charge in lots of 50 per tray and then check the tray for  
   double charges or no charges at all. I use a small Pen Light for this step.
4) I then install a turret with (2) bullet seating dies and (2) crimp dies. I insert a case &                        
   bullet, seat the bullet then index the turret. I then crimp the case and index the turret. I                
   remove the case, insert a fresh case & bullet and start the process again.  See the video below.
   During this operation I will periodically check the overall length.
Please note that the turret will index automatically with each pull of the lever. With this method I get two separate press operations with one case insertion into the shell holder.
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk81/jvsaffran/Reloading/100_0293.jpg
http://s278.photobucket.com/albums/kk81/jvsaffran/Reloading/?action=view&current=38specialclip.mp4

I used the above method for larger quantities to reload such as .38 Special. For smaller quantities such as .45-70 Govt, .44 Colt etc. I use one turret and a manual single stage mode. When using the Lee Classic Turret Press in a manual single stage mode I install a set of four dies in the turret. I insert a case into the shell holder and bring the lever down with my right hand to size & de-cap the case. On the up-stroke with my left hand I manually rotate the turret to the belling (flaring) die and then bring the lever down to bell the case. On the up-stroke I rotate the turret back to the sizing & de-capping die. I remove the case and then repeat the process. I do the same with seating the bullet and crimping the bullet.  Again with this method I get two separate press operations with one case insertion into the shell holder.

I don't use the LEE powder measure either. I use RCBS and Lyman and Dillon measures, but not LEE.  I have taken the approach that if it is LEE and made of metal, it is good. If it is LEE and it is plastic, it is bad.

I'll admit that the Lee Perfect Powder Measure does look have that questionable plastic look but I've had acceptable results with it using Trail Boss. It drops a charge within + or - .2 grains. The Lee Pro auto Disc Powder Measure is dead on almost all of the time.

[PJ Hardtack]

Johnny

That's one of the things I like about progressive presses, and why I advocate even a 'newbie' buying one - you can use it in a single stage manner or do a couple of operations as necessary.
Experience coupled with some instruction will build confidence before going into 'auto' mode.

I've been present twice when guns came apart; both cases involving ammo loaded on single stage presses. One was a 9mm Colt Commander that blew the grips panels off and drove the mag base plate out of the gun. Powder was Bullseye. The shooter's hand suffered some splinter wounds and I found the gold 'Colt' medallion later.
other was a .44 mag Super Blackhawk at a CAS match. After one horrendous roar, he fired again and this time the cylinder blew. Powder unknown. No injuries, except to the gun (forcing cone was OK) and we disallowed him shooting further.

Neither shooter said he 'block checked' before bullet seating.