Reloading question

[Dusty Drifter]

I'm just gettin' into CAS and bought a new Ruger Vaquero in .45LC and plan to eventually buy a lever gun in the same caliber, hopefully a 1873.  In order to be able to afford to shoot these things, I'm going to have to learn to reload but have absolutely no experience at reloading. I've done some research and comparison of the equipment and have pretty much decided on a Lee single stage press.
What I'm not sure about is what components to buy. There just seems to be way to many choices in brands and sizes of bullets, powder, brass and primers. I just need to find a starting point here. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Much obliged,
Texas John

[Old Top]

Texas John,

I have been reloading for about 30 yrs on a single stage RCBS,  a good way to get started on reloading would be to get the Lee single press that comes as a kit with the powdermeasure and most of the gear you will need.  I have used clays alomost exclusively for my pistols, rifle and shotgun.  See if you can find a friend who reloads and see what he does and recomends.  I would start on a single stage press to start because you get knowledge of what is suppose to happen and what to do if it does not, this is a bit difficult if you are doing four or five things at once as you have with a multi stage press.  You will need to go on line or buy a good reloading book to give your the sequence and how to go about it, also powder charges as to what ever powder your decide.  Hope this helps some what.

Old Top

[Curley Cole]

What Old Top said, I can only add:

first thing you should buy is Dr Richard Lee's book Modern Reloading. It will give you step by step loading instructions on pistol, rifle and shotgun. With pictures. What is different from what others is that Dr Lee also tells you WHY you are doing what you are doing.
it also will serve as your first reloading manual as it has load data in it. Sometimes you can buy it in a set along with a press.

When I started reloading about 40 years ago (which is about how long Top has been doing it too, as he has just lost track of time) I started with the little Lee hand loaders. it was a kit for one calibre that you hammered your brass in and out. but worked for years.

http://leeprecision.com/xcart/MODERN-RELOADING-2ND-ED.html

here is a link to the book I was talking about. Look around their site as to what is available. You can get most of this stuff from Midway also. but this will show you what is available.

hope this info helps

curley

[Bugscuffle]

No doubt about it get the Lee Reloading manual first. Read it overand it will save you hundreds of dollars. Next find someone that you can get to show you how this is done with a "hands on" demonstration. They can show you why you always put the deprimed, cleaned, reprimed, resized case in the loading tray casemouth DOWN. You turn them mouth side up, one at a time, only to charge them with powder. It's to prevent you from accidentally double charging the case, very easy to do with this cartridge. A single stage press is great for starters. I have both a single stage that i use for resizing rifle ammo and decapping just about all ammo and a turret press just because it's faster to reload. I reload about 300 rounds a week of metalic and another 100 of shotshell, but that's another animal. At first you'll look at the array of gear and wonder what you'll need. I reload a bunch of .45L.C. and here is a basic set of what you'll need.
single stage press
set of dies (3 die set)
powder measure to + or - 0.1 Gr. (the balance types are just fine, most of the expensive electronic types only measure to + or - 0.2 Gr.)
powder funnel
reoloading tray
primer pocket cleaner
the .45 L.C. is a straight cased pistol round so case lube is not a critical thing, but a spray on case lube is nice in keeping things working smoothly.
hand priming tool - yes you can prime the cases on the press, but a hand primer is cheap and you can prime up a couple of hundred prepared cases in an hour, it's what I use.
case mouth reamer and chamfer tool
You can clean fired cases in a bucket of water and a handgul of tide. Stir them with a stick once in a while and they'll come out just fine after soaking for a few hours. I prefer to deprime BEFORE case cleaning, it makes cleaning ou tthe primer pockets easier.but others do it differently.
I use all LEE tools, not because they are better, but because they are cheaper, a lot cheaper, they work well, last a long time and they have incredible customer service.
You'll pick up a few more things as you go along, but this will get you reloading.

GOOD LUCK

[wildman1]

The Lee 50th Anniversary Breech Lock Challenger Kit will give you everything you need to get started. Except the dies. Usually sells in Cabelas for about $100. WM

[Trailrider]

I agree with the above posts, but want to add that you need to get several reloading handbooks.  In addition to Dr. Lee's book, I'd pick up a copy of the Lyman Handloading manual #48 (or later, if they have published a newer edition), and probably a Speer and/or Hornady handbook.  Read and re-read the introductory sections before loading your first round.

I won't disagree about the Lee loading gear, as I have never used it. But I have been loading everything from 6mm Remington to .56-56 Spencer centerfire (including .45 LC and .44-40) for the past 51 (OMG! has it been that long??!! ) years, and am still loading on an old RCBS Model B Jr. single stage press, and have an old Redding Pacific balance beam powder scale, and use either an old Belding & Mull or an RCBS powder thrower that I got when I was 18 years old! I prefer RCBS dies, which are NOT cheap, but hold up!  If you are loading a lot of .45 LC, you'll probably want to at least get a carbide sizer die, as they won't require lubricating the brass.

Until you are well experienced with loading, I would definitely avoid a progressive press.

Best of luck, and DON'T BE AFRAID TO ASK QUESTIONS ON THIS OR THE OTHER FORUM! 

[Jefro]

Howdy Texas John, IMHO the best low cost starter set up is the Lee Classic Turret Kit, can be used as a single stage or turret, plus the kit comes with one set of pistol caliber dies. The heads are very inexpensive making caliber change a snap. The Lee web site has a video of each step to help get things set up right.  Kempf's Gun Shop, Cabela's. Midway,  has everything thing you need to get started, press, dies, Hornady One Shot case lube, tumbler kit, scales, reloading manuals, funnel, etc....If you do decide to go with the Lee make sure to include the "upgrade", well worth it for the Pro Auto powder measure. Once you start going to some matches find someone that will do a little show and tell with you, it's really very easy. You're gonna save a ton of money reloading yer own. Give Kempf a call, they can walk you through it. Good Luck
Lee Classic Turret Kit
Modern Reloading
Extra Turret
Tumbler Combo
Hornady One Shot
Scales, Funnel, Double Disk..etc
Lyman 49th

Jefro Relax-Enjoy

[Johnny McCrae]

Howdy Texas John,

Howdy Texas John, IMHO the best low cost starter set up is the Lee Classic Turret Kit, can be used as a single stage or turret, plus the kit comes with one set of pistol caliber dies. The heads are very inexpensive making caliber change a snap. The Lee web site has a video of each step to help get things set up right.  Kempf's Gun Shop, Cabela's. Midway,  has everything thing you need to get started, press, dies, Hornady One Shot case lube, tumbler kit, scales, reloading manuals, funnel, etc....If you do decide to go with the Lee make sure to include the "upgrade", well worth it for the Pro Auto powder measure. Once you start going to some matches find someone that will do a little show and tell with you, it's really very easy. You're gonna save a ton of money reloading

I would heartily second the above from Jethro. I started out with a Lee Classic Turret Press in 2007. So far I've reloaded over 28,000 rounds in six different calibers. I started out using the press in the single stage mode, priming and charging off press. Recently I added the Lee Safety Prime and Lee Pro Auto disc Powder Measure to my press. I have doubled my output. Starting out single stage enabled me to better learn the basics. Upgrading the press went very smooth.

The attached video link shows me seating and crimping a cartridge in the single stage mode:
http://s278.photobucket.com/albums/kk81/jvsaffran/Reloading/?action=view&current=38specialclip.mp4

The attached links from Lee and picture show exactly what my press now looks like after the upgrade:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Al0pZoSsfU&feature=player_embedded

[Dusty Drifter]

Pards, I sure do appreciate all of the good info and advice!

I got to studying the turret press that ya'll suggested and do see how that would be much more productive. I also like the idea of just changing out the turret when you want to change calliber. I'd like to also reload .357 and 9MM among others eventually. Only problem is the Lee Classic Turret Kit is about twice as much as I was going to spend on the Lee single stage press. I see that Lee also makes the a Deluxe Turret kit that I found at Cabelas for $100. Does anyone have any experience with that press?

I have a couple of other greenhorn questions.
How does a turret differ from a progressive press?
Do I need a 3 die set or a 4 die set?

Texas John

[Jefro]

Pards, I sure do appreciate all of the good info and advice!

I got to studying the turret press that ya'll suggested and do see how that would be much more productive. I also like the idea of just changing out the turret when you want to change calliber. I'd like to also reload .357 and 9MM among others eventually. Only problem is the Lee Classic Turret Kit is about twice as much as I was going to spend on the Lee single stage press. I see that Lee also makes the a Deluxe Turret kit that I found at Cabelas for $100. Does anyone have any experience with that press?

I have a couple of other greenhorn questions.
How does a turret differ from a progressive press?
Do I need a 3 die set or a 4 die set?

Texas John

Howdy John, the cost of the Classic turret kit from Kempf's is about the same if you bought the press, plus all the accesories needed to reload. The kit includes the powder measure and disks ($37), riser ($8.00), large and small auto prime ($32.00), shell plate ($3.00), carbide dies ($37.00) = $117.00.....plus six ammo boxes @ $1.89 = $11.34. Total accesories = $128.34.  The Classic is a better press than the Deluxe, and the Deluxe kit still does not include things like the dies, riser, small and large auto prime. The savings in reloading will pay for itself in no time. The same advise we gave you for firearms also applies here, find some folks that have a few different presses, go to thier house and check them out, try before you buy. We are a wierd bunch, we like to help out new shooters by letting them shoot our guns, try out our presses, you'll find plenty of help if you ask.
  The only difference between a 3 or 4 pistol die set is, the 4 die set includes a factory crimp die, it's nice to have but not required. The seating die will also do the crimping when not using the the factory crimp die. Richard Lee explains this in Modern Relaoding. The only time I use a Lee factory crimp die is on 45acp. When using the seat/crimp die for both it frees up a hole in your press in case you want to use a powder cop die, or maybe seperate expander die.
 With a turret press the head (which holds the dies) rotates, with each crank (upstroke/downstroke) of the handle the case is moved up into each die. Four strokes = 1 finished bullet. With a progressive the base (shell plate) holds five case at once and rotates with each stroke. With each stroke a case is advanced into the next die, five strokes = 5 finished bullets. With todays videos and a little help one could learn to reload on a progressive, just start out loading one case at a time. Lee's progressive presses can be a litle finicky. I use a Hornady LNL AP. There are alota good videos on line, remember most of us don't have case feeders. Here's some from Gavintoobe and few others, take the time to watch all of his videos and you'll get the idea. Maybe DJ will chime in here, he can usually explain things alot better than me. Good Luck.
Gavintoobe 9mm LNL AP
Lee Classic by Ammosmith
Ammosmith part II
Ammosmith youtube
Lee Classic


Jefro Relax-Enjoy

[Bugscuffle]

Oh yes, another thing - Stay completely away from E-Bay. You can nearly always get what you want from Midway or one of the other on-line stores cheaper and brand new and with all of the factory and store warranties not to mention customer service and faster shipping.

[Lead Zeppelin]

Howdy Texas John,
I would heartily second the above from Jethro. I started out with a Lee Classic Turret Press in 2007. So far I've reloaded over 28,000 rounds in six different calibers. I started out using the press in the single stage mode, priming and charging off press. Recently I added the Lee Safety Prime and Lee Pro Auto disc Powder Measure to my press. I have doubled my output. Starting out single stage enabled me to better learn the basics. Upgrading the press went very smooth.

The attached video link shows me seating and crimping a cartridge in the single stage mode:
http://s278.photobucket.com/albums/kk81/jvsaffran/Reloading/?action=view&current=38specialclip.mp4

The attached links from Lee and picture show exactly what my press now looks like after the upgrade:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Al0pZoSsfU&feature=player_embedded

I have to be honest, that second video seems intimidating to this non-reloader - a little like walking, whistling, patting your head and rubbing you tummy at the same time!  I think what was getting me was that it was 2 pulls of the right hand for every action with the left hand, except for the priming step.  It would definitely take some careful practice before I was comfortable with that!  Off-press priming seems like a good idea, if for no other reason than it seems like it would make the operations on the press a bit simpler.

I also have a question about an earlier post - why do you need a "case mouth reamer and chamfer tool"?  Isn't the expanding die adequate?



   

[Jefro]

I have to be honest, that second video seems intimidating to this non-reloader - a little like walking, whistling, patting your head and rubbing you tummy at the same time!  I think what was getting me was that it was 2 pulls of the right hand for every action with the left hand, except for the priming step.  It would definitely take some careful practice before I was comfortable with that!  Off-press priming seems like a good idea, if for no other reason than it seems like it would make the operations on the press a bit simpler.

I also have a question about an earlier post - why do you need a "case mouth reamer and chamfer tool"?  Isn't the expanding die adequate?
   

It's really very simple, the correct die is moved in place for each step of the reloading, you'll get the hang of it. Plus it can be used as a single stage if needed. No you don't need a case mouth reamer and chamfer tool, or case trimmer. Just tumble the brass, spray a little Hornady One Shot case lube and reload. Good Luck.

Jefro Relax-Enjoy

[Curley Cole]

Here is my reloading setup. I have it all bolted to a folding sawhorse. I can load anywhere I want to.....(as you can see some times in front of a good movie.) MY turret is in the back ground. I have had it since about 1984 and load everything from 380 to 45lc (if you get the Lee carbide dies you don't ever need case lube.

GET the Lee book Modern reloading. I doubt you will have very many questions after reading it. It takes you thru all the styles of loaders from the hand held to the progressive. It will be worth the money spent and is a loading manual to boot.

keep us posted on your progress

curley

[Johnny McCrae]

I have to be honest, that second video seems intimidating to this non-reloader - a little like walking, whistling, patting your head and rubbing you tummy at the same time!  I think what was getting me was that it was 2 pulls of the right hand for every action with the left hand, except for the priming step.  It would definitely take some careful practice before I was comfortable with that!  Off-press priming seems like a good idea, if for no other reason than it seems like it would make the operations on the press a bit simpler.

LZ, I can understand your concern as I felt the very same way so I started out reloading single stage, priming and charging the case off press. It took me almost four years and over 27,000 rounds before I felt comfortable enough to do all of the operations together as shown in the Lee video. As Jethro said, the Lee Classic Turret press can be used as a single stage if needed. I would definitely recommend using the single stage mode when starting out. What made me choose the Lee Classic Turret press initially was the ease of changing calibers.

I've just started reloading .45-70 cartridges with Black Powder and that will be done single stage only. I also will still reload single stage for some of my low usage cartridges.

[Bugscuffle]

The expander die opens up the whole top part of the case so that the bullet will slip in easily. The reamer/chamfer tool (usually one tool that has the reamer on one end and the chamfer tool on the other) conditions the edge of the case mouth to remove any burrs or such on the inside and outside edges of the case mouth.

I have to be honest, that second video seems intimidating to this non-reloader - a little like walking, whistling, patting your head and rubbing you tummy at the same time!  I think what was getting me was that it was 2 pulls of the right hand for every action with the left hand, except for the priming step.  It would definitely take some careful practice before I was comfortable with that!  Off-press priming seems like a good idea, if for no other reason than it seems like it would make the operations on the press a bit simpler.

I also have a question about an earlier post - why do you need a "case mouth reamer and chamfer tool"?  Isn't the expanding die adequate?


   

[PJ Hardtack]

Texas John

Welcome to the real world of handloading! Yes, it's going to cost to put together the basic set up, but if that is a deterrent, then you have to question whether or not shooting is a hobby for you. Whatever your initial outlay, over time it will pay off in money saved.
You mentioned buying one gun and are considering a 2nd. You will need both another pistol and a shotgun, leather, cart and a host of other things and paraphernalia too numerous to mention. Being a shooting athlete don't come cheap! Nor does any other active, outdoor sport.

Like most, I started with an RCBS "Jr." single stage press; dated 1974. I still have it, but as soon as I could afford it, I went to a progressive press and now I have a pair of Dillons; one with removeable tool head, t'other not. With both my wife and I shooting, I regard them as essential, both for the volume of ammo they produce and the time saved. Single stage reloading, like casting bullets from a single cavity mould, gets 'old' very quickly.

With some assistance and guidance from an experienced reloader, you ought to be able to handle a progressive from the get go. You can always use it as a single stage until you feel comfortable with it's progressive capability. Dillon's phone service is excellent should any problems arise.

Occasionally I see used Dillons for sale. Many come with the tool heads, dies and shell holders for several calibres. Check around .....

I'm thinking of buying one of the Dillons dedicated to a specific calibre - .45 Colt, since I seem to have several of them to feed. But I might make that .45 ACP, as the brass piles up pretty quickly when shooting a 'bottom feeder'.

[Okefinokee Outlaw]

Texas John,  If you choose to go the NCOWS route, you would only need one revolver and one rifle to compete in the Working Cowboy class. 

[Cliff Fendley]

Dillion are awesome reloaders but I always recommend people start out with one of the other single stage packages. Even with a progressive press you need things like the scales and such to get those set right and it's always handy to have a single stage press around.

Personally I recommend the RCBS equipment if you can afford it but the Lee will do just fine for loading pistol type ammo. When you actually use both you will see that the difference is like comparing driving a Yugo to a Cadillac. Not just the presses, the hand primers, throwers, and especially scales are much nicer.

I've never had any complaints with Lee dies, for the most part I use them over RCBS or others. Make sure you buy the carbide die set.

My old RCBS rock chucker has been around for years and my son and his kids will still be using it and the other accessories.

[Tascosa Joe]

+1 to what Cliff said.  I started reloading in 1970 with an RCBS Jr. Press.  It is still in the family.  I picked up a Rock Chucker as soon as I could afford it, and also have a progressive and a turret press.  I keep the turret set up to reload 38-40 and the I use the Rock Chucker to deprime black powder and to load 50-70 and 45-70.  I use the progessive for 45 Colt, 45 S&W, .44 Spl, 44 Russian and .44 Colt.  My progressive is an RCBS 2000 and die changes are pretty easy.  I changed the primer feed as I did not like the tape primer system.  You can get in the reloading business with one of the kits for anywhere from $120 for Lee up to about $350 for a RCBS Rock Chucker Kit.  You get what you pay for.  The bottom line of what a fellow needs to reload is a press, a set of dies, a scale, a set of Lee dippers, and reloading books.  IMO the scale and the books are your most important tools.   The scale and the books will keep you safe.   If I was building a library of reloading books, I would include the Lyman book, I think the latest issue is #49. 

As O/O said you only need 2 guns to shoot NCOWS a pistol and a rifle or shotgun.  If you are close enough to Greenville, TX come shoot with us. 

Enjoy the sport of shooting and reloading.

T-Joe