Military 1911 holsters

Capt. Augustus · October 16, 2011, 09:39:28 AM

I have been wondering, I do that a lot, about early military 1911 holsters. I have previously purchased a Pacific Canvas holster that had a twist to it that makes the grip stick out at an angle. I tried wetting it, but the twist won. It definitely had quite area pieces to it. Anyhow, did the holsters from this era have this twist? The oldest one I ever saw was WWII.

will ghormley · October 16, 2011, 07:03:44 PM

Hey Capt'n,

When researching military holsters for patterns, I found they had a block inside that bumped the handle out away from the body. That would have served the same purpose as a twist. I didn't include that in my para military pattern for 1911 holsters. Don't know that it was all that important. But, if I ever make an accurate military pattern, I'll include it.

Will

Capt. Augustus · October 16, 2011, 09:07:45 PM

Thanks Will, I Googled WWI holsters this afternoon and realized that they were made that way. The link to the 1911 manual 1912 is on the SASS WB forum. In it they mention twisting the pistol so as to not release the safety when drawing pistol in condition 1.

PJ Hardtack · October 17, 2011, 10:36:10 AM

Hey Cap

I think we have some cross-info happening here ....

I thought the US Army policy was to carry the 1911 with a full mag, hammer down on an empty chamber. When did that change?
Jeff Cooper had a real issue with that and was a proponent of the 'chamber loaded, cocked and locked' school.

Modern holsters like my El Paso '1930 Austin' have a leather pad incorporated to prevent accidental pressure on the mag release.
I think the function of any military holster design would be the same, nothing to do with the safety.

Trailrider · October 17, 2011, 11:22:54 AM

The original M1912 holsters (used from 1912 thru WWI, II and Korea, and afterward) have that wooden block, or possibly a leather pad that serves the same purpose, included to keep pressure by the inside of the holster from pressing the magazine release.

will ghormley · October 18, 2011, 07:24:18 AM

Hey PJ,

The U.S. Cavalry specifically had the 1911 designed so it could be carried with a round in the chamber, hammer cocked, and safety on, so it could be put into battery single-handed on horse back. As soon as the pistol was adopted and issued to the troops, the Army decided it wasn't necessarily a good idea to carry it that way.

Now, all regulations aside, when I was in the field I always carried my 1911A1 with eight rounds, hammer cocked and safety on. I wasn't the only one who realized the importance of having a sidearm that could be put into battery quickly. Thank God the Army had the foresight to insist on that design in the beginning. Who knows how many soldiers wouldn't have come home, how many missions would have faltered, if the 1911 wasn't originally designed to be deployed rapidly with one hand.

Will

PJ Hardtack · October 18, 2011, 06:47:49 PM

Carrying 'cocked & locked' would have prevented an incident and cost an NCO his stripes while I was serving in Germany ....

We used to read the 'Stars & Stripes' as we didn't have a Canadian Brigade paper of our own. It reported an 'accidental/unintentional discharge' at a US Army base. The NCO IC of the Guard detail was trying to impress a rookie by opening a Coke bottle, sticking the cap into the ejection port of his .45.
He accomplished this by locking back the slide, but then he hit the slide stop, chambering a round and dropped the hammer - "Bang!"

A Buck Sergeant was an instant Private. If he knew he was carrying 'cocked & locked', it might not have happened.

will ghormley · October 19, 2011, 09:35:12 AM

Hey PJ,

In the units I served in, locked and cocked would have been frowned upon in a non-combat area, (like Germany). However, it makes a lot of sense if you are actually in an AO where you would be expected to use the weapon for its intended purpose.

I'd forgotten how much I enjoyed the 1911. However, give me an ol' .45 wheel gun if I've got to reach out and touch somebody at any distance. That's one of the reasons I carried a .357 mag with hollow points under my blouse.

Will

PJ Hardtack · October 19, 2011, 10:31:55 AM

In Germany during the 'Cold War', we were 'at war' - the shooting just hadn't started yet. The guys on the NATO checkpoints between the Bundesrepublik and the DDR might not agree with your assessment of the threat level.

People were being shot regularly trying to escape Honecker's East German Worker's Paradise. All along the wall and the border, we looked into a lot of gun barrels pointed west. I carried a Browning 9mm in my combat jacket; not the issue Inglis-made gun (issued to Sr. NCOs and Officers only), but the commercial model. My Sterling 9mm SMG was not always handy when I was stringing phone wires and climbing poles in the Signal Corps. Bought it when I first joined up.

Now I hear we are dumping the Browning for God knows what, the Brownings to be scrapped, not sold off. Probably something that doesn't work as well with unnecessary bells, gongs and whistles.

will ghormley · October 19, 2011, 12:43:11 PM

Hey PJ,

I guess I wasn't thinkin' about Germany during the cold war era. That was a little dicey. When the U.S. Army adopted the M9, a lot of us bought our own 1911A1s and continued to carry 'em rather than the 9mms that were issued.

Will

PJ Hardtack · October 19, 2011, 08:59:04 PM

I hope and pray that we don't adopt some plastic framed 'wonder nine' to replace the Browning.

The advice of many who carry guns and have used them in their own defence is: "Don't shoot anyone with a gun whose calibre doesn't start with the number '4'.

I was shooting one of my 1911s today along with a Kirst 5-shot Remington '58 .44/.45 Colt conversion. These guns give me confidence!