Reloading 44 colt

[Deadeye Don]

I am pretty sure I can use dies (Dillon 550B)  for 44 special to reload 44 colt brass, but would I also  use 44 special lead to reload?  Is there a source out there for 44 colt bullets?

[Cole Bluesteele]

Current 44 colt loads use the same bullets as 44 special and 44 russian.   I use a .430 bullet in both the 44 russian and 44 colt rounds.  I also use the same reloading dies, just set them differently for the russian and colt rounds.

If you are planning on loading the original heeled bullet in original 44 colt brass, I do not know of any source otherthan casting your own.

Ted

[Irish Dave]

Also, given the smaller case capacity, the powder load would need to be reduced from the .44 special listings, I suspect. I'd think that a recommended .44 Russian load would probably be better in the .44 Colt case.

Some of you .44 special fans could probably give him a definitive answer.

[Deadeye Don]

Thanks guys.  I will be using Unique powder.

Cole,  I will be using modern made 44 colt brass.

[Montana Slim]

I'd go with the Russian dies, too. The .430 bullets are probably correct....at least that is what I cast/size/lube my home-cast bullets to for use in my .44 R-Ms and Open Top. My standard loads are .44 Russian, but I have a few boxes of trimmed brass made to .44 Colt length (from 44 specials)...as my pistols are cut for .44 Colt.

Mind sharing what type of revolvers will you be firing these from?
...and, have you measured the chamber throats on the cylinder (or dropped a .430 bullet through)?
IMO, the bullet should pass through the throat with slight resistance. If it won't pass through without pounding it, I'd say it's too big.

Slim

[Cactus Rope]

DD

I load 44 colt in my 44special dies, just need to adjust your depth. I use .429 or .430 bullets. If you go to Hodgdon's site you can get all the loads you will ever want.

Good luck

[Deadeye Don]

I will be shooting them in my Richards Type 2.  I called Dillon and they stated I can in fact use the 44special/44mag dies and just adjust for depth.  As with my other calibers I will have a dedicated powder measure, and tool head for 44 colt.

[Cole Bluesteele]

Don,

I use the same setup (Dillon 550 & 44 spl/mag dies) for both 44 Colt and 44 Russian.  Just have to make minor adjustments to switch between the two.  I have had good luck with Clays & Titegroup in both calibers in Richards Type 2's and Open Tops.  I use loads in the middle of the ranges listed in the Hodgdon's website. 

Also full cases of BP give pretty good groups.  Ask Deadeye Dave about the group on the little cowboy on our first stage at the SW Regional...at 15+ yards shot a group smaller than the palm of your hand.   So don't overlook BP.

Ted

[Montana Slim]

I'm using Lee press & Lee Dies.....note that my Lee 44spl/44mag dies will not adjust down to seat/crimp the bullet in either .44 Colt or Russian length brass. If your using other dies/press this may not be the case.

Slim

[Abilene]

Don't you need to use a different shell plate than .44 Spcl due to the smaller rim diameter of .44 colt ?

[Cole Bluesteele]

With the Dillon 550, you use the same shell plate.  The case diameter of the Colt, Russian and Special cases are all the same.  The rim diameter may not relevant, as I use the same locator buttons and I have not had any problems. 

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Have fun, Don!

I recently got an Open Top chambered in 44 Spl. and I've elected to do most of my shooting with 44 Russian loads and Black Powder.  I've already loaded 100 rounds and shot 50.  Like you're planning, I use the Dillon 44M/44S dies on my RL550B and have had NO problems.  I love the gun and the 44 Russian loads are sweet and easy to shoot, 'tho I'm used to the heavier 45 Colt loads I have used for the last 12 or 13 years.  If measured, I'm only getting a bit more than half of my BP 45 Colt load in those itty-bitty 44R cases!  I'm getting the .429" MAV Dutchman BigLube (tm) boolits from Springfield Slim.  They are a 190-200 gr. (depends on the alloy used) projectile that works very well for the distances we'll need at the GLFMC & SMVS ranges, but I have heard that beyond 50 yds., the MAV loses accuracy, but that is only what I've heard, NOT what I have experienced - since I doubt I've shot much over 30-35 yds. so far.

Here is a comparison of 4 major sizes of 44 caliber rounds offered (I didn't add the 44 M itself) that can be loaded using many 44M/44S dies available today.  As you prob'ly know, the 44 Colt originally used an outside, heel-based bullet that in modern times would probably be considered a 45 caliber.  The modern 44 Colt uses a 44S or M case shortened to the length of the original and is a true 44 cal. round.  I'm only listing the case length and various bullet weights that are/were offered.

(From shortest to longest case length)

44 American:        .91" L                    205-218 grs.  (BP 45 cal. heeled-bullet round from 1869)
44 Russian:           .97" L                    246 grs.        (BP round from 1870; 1st use of an internally lubed bullet)
44 Colt:                1.10" L                  210-225 grs.  (A.K.A. 44 Long Colt, BP round from 1871)
44 Special:            1.16" L                  200-246 grs.  (a smokeyless round, introduced in 1907/1908)

As to power, they compare like this:  (also listed by case length, but longest to shortest in this list)

44 Special:        310-336 ft. lbs.            (310 = original LRN factory load)
44 Colt:            197-207 ft. lbs.            (207 = original factory load)
44 Russian:        310 ft.lbs.                   (310 = original factory load)
44 American:     196-212 ft. lbs.            (212 = original factory load)

Most of these figures came from the 1972 Barnes & Amber book, some from Remington & Federal.  List info courtesy of our favourite, always-accurate Wikipedia.  (Which gets it right often, but is only as accurate as the person writing the listing.)  I can't find my own copy of Barnes - Cartridges of the World, so I can't verify the info - but I'm pretty sure it's right ... or very close.

I don't have any Unique powder recipes for your 44 Colt loads, sorry.  I'd wager, however that you could take the 44 Special & 44 Russian Cowboy loads as shown on the Alliant website of Cowboy loads http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/RecipeList.aspx?gtypeid=5 and work up your own load.  They list the loads using the same bullet from an RCBS 200 gr. casting.  There IS quite a variance between the 2 loads, just remember that your revolver can no doubt handle the heavier 44 Special loads, so I doubt you'd be in any trouble.  Other Ammo "Recipe" experimenters might be able to tell you more specifics, but since the 44 Colt case is just .006" shorter than the 44S case, the capacity is similar, and if you dropped 15% - 20% from the listed loading, you'd have a nice shooting, safe load.  OR ...   you could simply fill the case to 1/8"-3/16" from the top with 3F or 2F Black Powder and KNOW your load is both safe and authentic!


Hey!  I make no apology for advocating BP ... it's my powder of choice!  And it IS SO cool as you already know, Don - since you do wander over to the Dark Side from time to time.


Keep yer powder dry, pard!

[French Jack]

SHB:  I believe that you have reversed the numbers for the 44 Russian and the 44 Colt.  The 44 Colt is comparable to the 44 S&W Spl., the Russian and the American are also comparable.

[Steel Horse Bailey]

SHB:  I believe that you have reversed the numbers for the 44 Russian and the 44 Colt.  The 44 Colt is comparable to the 44 S&W Spl., the Russian and the American are also comparable.

Bob, howdy:

I'm not sure what numbers you mean.  I'm sure of the case length numbers as published and as I wrote them.

Are you speaking of the power figures?  (I assume so)

If so, I can see where you might think so, but I simply printed them out as I found them listed.  I had heard that the 44 Colt (which by size IS closest to 44 S) is a pretty anemic round, while the 44 Russian is a little powerhouse, considering the timeframe.  However, having shot my 44 R reloads, which are filled with BP and compressed didn't seem all that powerful, and as you know, the Colt O/T design (as done by Uberti) is certainly NOT a big, heavy gun that will minimize recoil forces by its' weight.  I have no experience with the 44 Colt, either the original or the modern version.  Logically, with the 44 Colt (modern) being .013" longer, it should theoretically be more powerful, but ...  I just reported the figures as I found them.  Like I mentioned in my original post, I can't find my Barnes book to verify the figures I found with the help of Mr. Google.

[FriscoCounty]

I double checked my copy of the 12th Edition of Barnes and got:

Cartridge	Bullet (Gr)	Charge (Gr)	Velocity	Energy	Case Length
.44 American	218 Lead	25 FFg	660	196	.91
.44 Russian	246 Lead	20 FFFg (?)	770	324	.97
.44 Colt	210 Lead	23 FFg	660	206	1.10
.44 Special	246 Lead	Smokeless	755	310	1.16

The ? next to the .44 Russian load is in the text. 

According to an article by John Taffin, the .44 Russian loaded with 23 grains of BP yielded 750 fps. The .44 Colt with a 210 gr heeled bullet over 21gr BP yielded 750 fps. 

So, I am guessing that the .44 Russian load was actually closer to 23 grains.  Then the question comes to mind as to what pistol the various cartridges were test fired out of and when.  Things like balloon head vs solid head, heeled vs non-heeled, barrel length, bore, etc will come into play. 

So, I am gue

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Frisco County, (is the Junior left silent?)   

Thanks for checking my figures in your book.  I seem to have a Black Hole in or around my worshop area, and my old copy of the Barnes book seems to have been sucked into it!


No doubt I'll find it long after I need it ...

[Colt Fanning]

Howdy,
I downloaded a label from a Jan 1873 Frankfort arsenal box which stated 12 cartridges for Colt's and Remington revolvers Caliber 44 Powder 30 grains bullet 225 grains.  I believe that the label came from River City John's collection.
Regards
Colt

[Marshal Davis]

I reload the various 44 caliber shells (44 spl, 44 rus, and 44 colt) and use the same dies for all three. The only real difference besides adjusting the dies for individual caliber is I've found the shellholder for 44 mag/spl, and 44 rus does not work with the 44 colt. The rim is too small to work well so I switch to a shell holder for the 41 mag. It works perfectly for 44 colt cases.

[FriscoCounty]

Frisco County, (is the Junior left silent?)   

Much as I like Bruce Campbell, I am on the north side of 50.  So, think R. Lee Ermey.

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Much as I like Bruce Campbell, I am on the north side of 50.  So, think R. Lee Ermey.

You could do a LOT worse.  And you DID say Friscoe, not Briscoe.